Posts by Tzunami

    I'd have to agree with Hella; it's all about the way the community adapted over the years. While Tunnel was the most popular map at one point, the combination of ST-2 being the "final unlockable TD map", the shift from normal to speed servers, FP movement boosts, and the evolution of S4 tricks and overall gameplay, it became the hallmark of making it as a Unlimited player if you could hang with the popular crowd.


    Fast forward some years after S5 tourneys, various players coming and going, and all sorts of "metas" and St-2 has stayed as the pinnacle of TD. I personally prefer Tunnel as it forces players to truly work as a team instead of having people hero rush day in and out, but that's my opinion.

    That's pretty much my story: I've always been exposed to music since I was a kid. My mother played piano and sung in a choir, so I adapted the singing myself and would hum or sing along with plenty of my old Genesis games. I learned about arrangement through one of those games, and it sorta laid dormant throughout orchestra and band in school until I stumbled upon a PS2 game that pretty much led me to where I am now.

    I never really went too advanced with learning music theory; I'm pretty sure I know a lot of it subconsciously, but I couldn't give you exact names of anything.

    Haha. Fair enough. I never really took the step to post anything there; I've only done a couple VG remixes, and those were ages ago. Always been a fan of it, but never truly my cup of tea. I can think of a few games of the top of my head that had music I'd love to remix though.

    Right. Nothing wrong with that mindset at all. Doing the track justice is the end-goal. Reminds me of all the tracks from the SF2 HD Remix game... pretty sure that was the one where Capcom reached out to OCRemix for tracks.

    Aye. I know that feeling when there's little to nothing of source beyond a direct rip when you're trying to recreate a song. It definitely gives more room for creativity though, which is ideal for rearrangements.

    I am very curious how do you strip down the different instruments to channels.

    I'd say there are one of three options: listening to the original source trace and recreating it from scratch, using the assistance of a MIDI file, giving her the essential information so she can record and do her own arrangement, or using a MIDI file as a guideline for a similar arrangement. In that, I would think the second option was the route she took.


    Edit: Or she can do the full breakdown already.

    i just wanted to point out this thing. There are plenty of games where snipe OS everyone without having a 3s charging. Furthermore, there's no delay between your shot and the hit. Then you guys seems to forget s4 has a GP that allows people to dodge WAY MORE efficiently than any other game which makes snip aim even harder.

    I have nothing against the old-rg since I played it a lot but stop all of you being blind: With the comming of fps, enchants and espers sniper weaps got nerfed hardly. The old-rg was only a high-aim weap with no rewarding for using it.

    There's no blind statement behind this. I should've added more details as I'm not downplaying any of that, but I shouldn't need to compare gameplay mechanics if we know how different S4 is compared to most other games.

    I specifically pointed out that a normal sniper rifle (usually) has the OHKO potential no matter where you hit, compared to the Railgun where you needed the headshot (full-charge) or you didn't get the kill (or the knockback caused them to fly off the map); It does enough damage for someone else to clean up, which should be enough if you're covering the Striker, but if you're dueling the enemy sniper, they could easily just get healed up. By the time enchanting truly picked up and people started getting the high level and specialized stats, Railgun couldn't stand up to anyone anymore, and so it fell off.

    And nobody thinks of rocket launchers as being long ranged weaponry

    I followed up that point with the issue of it falling off after a certain distance, but it can still be used as such. What other long-range weaponry truly exists beyond a sniper-rifle, or it's mundane cousin the bow?

    Is all of that sniper disruption talk just assumptions or have you actually had consistent success with that?

    Most of my S4 playtime was spent sniping with cannon, and then my rail, until I moved over to the Gauss Rifle. I've been in both positions of the sniper and invader, and I've had success and failure in both. I rarely played with AP/FP stats as well (I have a perm launch +0 rail as my only perm), so I was putting myself at a disadvantage as well. I can also probably connect this with the next quote

    People have not accepted the current rail gun, that's for sure. I think the reason why people were fine with the old railgun and the current sharpshooter and canno being in the game is that they' just weren't very good. Like, for weapons who are supposed to be part of the most skill requiring and aim dependant, there was a noticeable lack of them in tournaments, notably s5 tournaments, where the best players with the best accuracy were playing. If a weapon has the highest skill floor but isn't even played at the highest level, it just means they're suboptimal and I don't think anyone can argue with that.

    As railgun was popular back then, it also wasn't as ridiculous. You rarely had shield snipers, rarely had hugsnipers, you just had people who jumped around, aimed and fired, myself included. The landscape was also different: suicide bombers were actually effective because of the SD fix not happening yet, most of the stats you have now didn't really exist beyond the standard FP (no enchanting, poor boosting chips that were non-permanent[beyond reload speed and sentry placement speed]), and plenty of other things, capping off with the final issue:

    I was expecting this. Yup, basically the appeal of sniping in S4 is that you can kill people who can't do anything to you in return. Snipers don't like getting directly punished for their mistakes, and they don't like having to react to people shooting at them, or trying to melee them, or doing anything that could hurt them. I mean, it's true, snipers don't die very often in this game (in sta-2 at least).

    Hiding behind the walls in St-2 was frowned upon as a rail user back then. Unless you were reloading, you rarely saw anyone back there. The L/R camera is the biggest culprit in this case, making it near impossible to actually take a sniper out while they sit there completely safe. Combine that with the type of spawn area it has and it's less an issue about the sniper and more about the community's lack of diversity since St-2 is the only map they really care about. Personally, I hate St-2, and I spent most of my time on Tunnel, Old School or Colosseum, because I really hated the lack of team-based play that was emerging at the time after the introduction of FP sets and items, but I digress.

    Snipers, generally speaking, should be hidden from view and reacting to their surroundings, knowing that they only get the one shot before their target is dead, or they need to re-position because of a miss (which shouldn't be happening.) It's never been exclusively about the hiding, but the power you have to remove one target instantly. In S4, everyone knows where you are if you miss, and they'll start to keep an eye out for you because it's the smart thing to do.


    The old rail was a highly skilled weapon, because you had to get a headshot if you wanted the one-hit kill, thanks to AP/FP mitigating the damage to leave you at <25hp. The knockback was also a good perk on a full charge, but tagging someone with any charge was enough to cause a flinch, also just fine to deal with if you were prepared, or pay for if you had tunnel vision; these weapons, Railgun and Cannonade, were effective because you had to be good, but the people that were good were feared, it was no different than any other game with a sniper rifle, beyond the fact that you needed to charge for the highest damage shot, meaning you had no rapid fire. A revert to the old Rail would be perfectly fine in my eyes, as the new rail is clearly too OP to exist in the form it's in now.

    Does extreme explosive or high velocity projectile mean sniping? Well the answer to my rhetorical question is no (who would have thought). Rocket launcher isn't a sniping weapon (I mean it has some long range uses but mostly it's midrange), not in this game and not in any game I know. And when it comes to high veloctiy projectiles, Overwatch's Zarya's Particle Cannon is an example of one that has pretty low range.

    I'm speaking of long-range weapons in general, not specifically calling them sniping weapons here. Sure there are outlier examples, but again, we're back to the first quote and things being conventional for the game it is. In most cases, the longest range weapon in any game will be a sniper rifle, or some form of homing explosive/ballistic weapon. Rocket launchers are unreliable after X amount of distance, but it can still be used past the mid-range on bigger targets.

    As for your last point about invading against a sniper, it's actually something I've tried several times, and it failed, and I told you why already. You start by assuming the sniper has already been taken out, that's missing the crucial point that you're actually extremely unfavoured against the sniper in the first place if they notice you.

    You should never assume that a sniper is down until you see some form of notification that they are, that's simple logic. It's also easy to track a respawn timer and know the standard locations for where they'll be if you have to take an educated guess on the chance they'll fly out of the gate and take you out. You've already covered the point of doing it on the offensive, instead of the defensive, which is the most likely usage scenario, and you've covered the fact that it's all up to probability, which will be the case for any core mechanics of TD anyways, but it doesn't nullify my point of actually going out there and doing the job for your team.


    Even in a case where you are the main target of the sniper, speaking from a defensive position, you're still taking the focus off of your team's core attacker/s or defender/s. An invader is going to be one less player on your team stopping the defense, but why not come prepared to disrupt from the enemy's side of the map as well? Sure, in a perfect world where everyone's skill level is balanced, you can expect every player on your team to do their best and slip up once or twice on an outplay, but even that is based on probability on who has the advantage in the moment. At the end of the day, all you can do is play and do your best.


    On that note, would you rather have the enemy sniper picking your team off one by one uncontested, or at least have someone keeping them distracted while the enemy goes for a goal. Why do people bring typical deterrents like bind, block, either sentry, etc. as a defender to keep the enemy from scoring? Why not bring them as an invader as well to keep the enemy from leaving? There were a fair share of devastating rail users back in my generation just as much as this one, plus they had the original stats and delay to deal with. That didn't stop people from invading and putting pressure on the enemy base. They probably died as much as an invader would now, but they still did it for the good of the enemy team. Even I've dealt with them first hand on countless occasions, sometimes with a kill and sometimes with a death. They made their presence known and made sure they were just as threatening as anyone else on the team, even as a player deep in enemy territory.

    I don't care what's conventional for a video game

    This alone covers most of the debate, and contradicts what you say that follows:

    I'm asking about what's good for S4 league in particular and conducive to fun being had.

    S4 is a video game, and shouldn't get special treatment just because it's unique in it's own lane, simply because you don't care what's conventional and what isn't. It doesn't mean others will feel the same, and it doesn't mean that S4 needs to be even more radical than it already is. The ten-year anniversary is around the corner, and players of the game know it's been plagued with issues since before it's first anniversary came around, yet you still have people sticking with it and hoping things turn around or watch as the slow burn of issues finally engulf the game whole. If the remaining community has accepted what's always been in place, why cause such a drastic shift?


    Archetypes exist for a reason in video games. Hell, even S4 had archetypes in the early years with a few AP bundles: Striker, Center Guard, Defender (pretty sure it had a more interesting name, but it was the defense bundle), and the Sword pack. Either way, conventional is the norm in S4, and PV/Neowiz created and adapted weapons around those roles. S4 isn't an RPG where you can throw out hundreds of unique class types that players can adapt to themselves, it's a high-speed third-person shooter, and shooters, no matter the type, will always have CQC, medium, and long range weaponry, along with S4's inclusion of an array of melee weapons and skills to use in battle. It's up to the player to make use of it all. A lack of balance never stopped anyone before from using stronger or weaker weapons, why is it so different now?


    Yes, the gripe of dealing with a sniping weapon is counter-intuitive in any game that has a weapon that can be classified as such because of the high stopping power and potential to one-hit, but all that will happen is that the player will rage, flame, complain, and either deal with it to the end, or ragequit; this isn't the developer's issue to deal with most of the time since someone is that good with the weapon. Yes, arena shooters have standard and creative ways to fit into those archetypes, but they still exist, and they're also monitored and balanced fairly well to make sure gameplay is fluid and okay for everyone; Aeria is trying to achieve this to bring new life into S4 while keeping the integrity and style of the original game, whether it be maps, weapons, skills, outfits, or the big balance patch/es they have planned; S4 hasn't had the best track record for maintaining... well anything really, and Aeria is putting it's faith in the playerbase that's been there for the ups and downs to help them balance what's already there without going overboard.


    I have no issue with your idea of changing the railgun from a long-range weapon to a mid-range one, nor do I have any issues with your feelings toward nerfing the gun to the ground, my issue is that you need to look out for the health of the game as a whole. Even if you do get the changes you want, it's not going to stop the portion of the community that use the weapon to demand a revert or buffs, or even more nerfs. Most of the changes over the years have been because of community outcry (i.e. Handgun aim-assist, old umbrella gun being completely removed, the limited/unlimited ammo issue that started with Season 1). Voices will be heard on such a drastic change if you had your way.


    Edit:

    Although the more relevant question would be, do you even care whether or not people other than you are having fun?

    I do care though. And if there is an appeal in camping and sniping people from afar other than the fact that you don't have to risk your b*tt like everyone else, then please pray tell what it is.

    The same could be said about any aspect of the game. "Why do you enjoy rushing the ball so much?" "Why do you enjoy being a healer?" "Why do you enjoy SO?" Everyone has their own preference and reason why they do it. Personally, I enjoy being a sniper because I don't like being in the thick of battle, I rather pick my targets carefully at the vital moments of a match to keep everything in my teams favor.

    But why? Who said that and why is it important that all games follow that precept?

    From a realistic standpoint, that's been the standard. It's conditioning that a gamer will expect, or classify, even if the name isn't blatantly given. A long-range high damage weapon is either going to be some form of extreme explosive, or a high-velocity bullet of some sort, that's just how it is. I'm not saying it can't be changed, simply that those weapons are categorized that way and should act as such. It's why I specifically mentioned the charging mechanic differentiating them from the norm.


    I've heard it's already the case though (or so I've heard). Unless you meant that it should scale more than it already does.

    It is, but following my opinion piece, and balance idea, I'd expect a greater lower range, but keep the max the way it is at the cost of, say, double the charge length.

    Unless you meant something else by "disrupting their gameplay" than trying to kill them up close.

    Just because your invading to take out the sniper doesn't mean you can't do more damage. Even if you are in a position where the enemy is focused on you, that's less focus for whoever is deciding to score on your team. Work with them, plan ahead, and be smart; bring weapons that are good for keeping the enemy down while in their base. Go ahead and die for that cause, then do it all over again. Every single player doesn't have to be trying to run the stairs to score a goal through the wall of defense, you should be making sure that nothing stops the ball from getting to the goal.


    The community has evolved to a point where it's wrong to think outside of the box and do something different without being ridiculed, hounded, and possibly kicked from rooms. It's a bad position for the game to be in when the health of the game is simply based on everyone using the same 2-3 sets of weapons with zero deviation, which SO suffers from just as much. I understand that every weapon isn't balanced to perfection, that Rev is better than BSG because of all five bullets being fixed compared to the center one on the BSG, or that HMG will always trump Turret and the new umbrella gun because they just aren't as good, or that Gauss Rifle's spread is completely ineffective simply because it goes up, but that shouldn't stop someone from finding a use for these weapons in their own niche way.

    I hope whatever balance Aeria comes up with fixes the landscape and allows people to be unique, but it'll also be a long road back to the community wanting to be that way. It'd be a shame to continue seeing such a unique game fade into nothingness because it became stale. . . but that's just my opinion.


    Edit: A quick side note, but did they remove the ability for a cannonade's blast to penetrate through shields, or did everyone just forget about it?

    I'll throw my two cents in as an old school rail/cannon player:

    No matter the game, a sniping weapon is always going to be a sniping weapon. It should be devastating, it should cause a quick shift in the landscape of the game, but, compared to other games, the charging is what keep the balance between rapid-fire headshots and making sure you pick your targets carefully.

    From what I recall, (speaking from the past), Railgun had a .5 second delay between release and hit, caused a flinch at around half or higher charge, had high base damage (something like 50-75), and did 1x damage on click, 2x on half-to-99% charge, and 4x damage on full charge (or something along those lines.. it's been forever since I've done real weapon breakdowns). The delay was hell to deal with, period; that being fixed is just fine. The charging aspect and damage dealt on the weapon are the other core points, and I feel as if those should be the base from where the balance comes from. A longer charge time with a broader damage window can easily mitigate most of the issues you see in the rail from what I've read in this debate: a VIP will most likely become the main target for the Rail user, but said user will have to take time to charge up the shot to make sure it's a one-hit kill. Lower amounts of charge can still do damage, but that damage could be low enough to deter spammed shots on a low clip, unless you would rather whittle the enemy down for a teammate to finish. The trade-off should be obvious from a damage perspective and it would make players think more and shoot less, or drop the weapon all together to find the next long-range OP option.


    Cannonade is the "AoE" answer for long-range players, which in itself is weird for a sniping-based weapon, but I digress. The push? Always been too much of an issue. The old Dark Lightning Umbrella gun, (which I was a fan of), was a reverse Cannonade, more or less, but it's radius of effect, and pull, we're set much lower to not cause too many issues with it's mechanics; the Cannonade itself can learn from this design choice. Explosions in general have a huge radius to affect, and the force behind that explosion is mirrored very well in the point-of-impact, which makes it a good weapon on St-2 to pretty much ruin all momentum. The same philosophy for the Railgun can be given to the Cannonade: scale the AoE and push in relation to how much charge you give it; increasing the charge time would make sense for the current amount of effect the weapon has, making sure that the user has to make the correct decision on what they decide to target or risk waiting X amount of seconds for another full blast.

    These weapons should be high-risk/high-reward, but they need to stay in their niche and thrive in it. Seeing as ST-2 is the only map any TD player cares about, and the collective of the unlimited TD community should know exactly where a sniper generally hides, it shouldn't be too hard to disrupt their gameplay and make each shot count instead of frantically firing until they need to reload. Sure, hiding on the rail, or one of the other top-of-the-map locations is possible, but you're forced to be out in the open, just like using wings. Players that use L/R camera settings will hide behind the walls, but other players should be pressuring these defenders instead of all trying to score at the exact same time.

    tl;dr: Scale damage/AoE/push on charge time, bigger risk/reward windows, players need to be smarter overall.

    Hello to all.

    I go by Tzunami, a veteran of the game since launch, Unlimited-aficionado (though I'll dabble in SO), and mostly a player of the NA server back when it was populated. I used to keep to myself, not talking to anyone and playing through the game without a care, but as the years passed I met and gained a great deal of friends. I've been known to give people the cold shoulder, but I'm simply not that social.


    Even though I started back during launch, I didn't spent much time playing during the early days, quitting around the time of the infamous "Patch 10", possibly because of my account being penlocked, but it's been too long to remember the exact details. I made my return during the Halloween event of 2010, quickly adapting to the NA server and finding myself very comfortable there. At that time, I made a name for myself on that server, first as a sniper, and then as one of the few dedicated Gauss Rifle users. Although I wasn't a fan of being in a clan and doing those activities, I was recruited into Althea at the start of 2011, sticking with them until the clan dissolved.

    By that time I was mostly burned out on the game, with how things were turning out in the NA community, so I took a break for a few months. By the summer, I had a few friends mention that AlaPlaya was holding a giant event for the summer with contests galore. I decided to enter a song for the music division of the event, taking first place and gaining a bit of popularity through the game. Though placing first was nice, I still felt the same from before, only sticking around for the duration of the event and a month or so after.

    I had my feelings for how S4 was being managed behind the scenes, and the ever-changing community, but the game itself was an itch that simply can't be scratched. It's a unique game that hasn't had a true competitor in it's niche (the closest thing being Gunz: The Duel/Gunz 2). I found myself playing off and on for the next year or so, taking part in the 2012 Summer Event and placing first in the music division again, but soon moving on again. Years passed, with sparse visits to the Netsphere to see how things have turned out, going through the Aeria migration and such, until eventually I found myself here again. Now, after meeting a new group of S4 players, I've been back to my visits of the game every now and then, but deciding to lurk the forums as well.

    Outside of S4, I have many different hobbies and passions, but I'm mostly a musician, producer, and DJ, honing my craft and taking life one day at a time. I'm not a very competitive person, so the games I do frequent are usually single-player, strategy, creative, or easy to pick up and put down at a moments notice.


    I think that's enough to mention for now, but I'm always open to hold conversations with others if they're interested.
    ~Tzu

    Do you what to know why st2 become popular?

    Back in the days it was one of the maps that were locked until reaching certain level so the ppl rushed to play it when they got there and that is how it all started.

    Not to mention that St-2's popularity continued to skyrocket once Speed servers became the only accessible server type. Combine that with the newly released FP caps at the time and the rest is history.

    It was either Tunnel or St-2 being played, rarely anything else unless the room creator felt like playing it, and eventually Tunnel phased out because St-2 tricks were more interesting than team play.