Chaser, Battle Royal, Siege and Captain have issues.

  • DISCLAIMER: I'm going to be talking from my experience as an unlimited player, though most of my remarks still apply to OS in theory.


    These game modes have been around since forever, but they have enormous flaws which in part explain that they are much less played than Touch Down (and perhaps Death Match).


    Siege:

    The capture points don't matter. People are just exchanging 7 points (capture + point pick ups generated from the capture) back and forth but in the end those capture points only create a differential of 21 (7*3) points, which is underwhelming considering that team scores often go up to 300 points (although that figure is inflated by the fact that playing the capture game accelerates the acquisition of points by both teams). What matters is killing enemies and getting point pick ups (which you can do from enemy bases).

    But let's consider that, hypothetically, you do not want to give those 21 points up. In that case, the only captures that matter are the first and the last. In other words, once a point is captured from being blank, the only time you want to capture it back is during the last 30 or so seconds of the timer.

    I mean, it's not an issue for me, I like playing death match with ammo/SP/HP pick ups, but it fails to be its own thing.

    Fixing it would be easy, give an advantage to teams that can keep bases, like a buff depending on which base you have or just a point every X second or something.


    Captain:

    -Cannot start a match while there is less than 4 players: It makes no sense, how is it an issue to start at 1v1 in captain? It's a big deal too, because finding 3 players to play a game that hasn't started yet and in an underplayed mode is near impossible unless you ask in your friends list or something.

    -numerical advantage: Sitting is impossible in Captain (since you have to die first and if you offer your life you're giving the enemy team an advantage because of the compensation). The compensation (aka more HP when the enemy team starts with more captains) is nowhere near enough in most cases, since having the numerical advantage in S4 league is worth way more than a few additional HP.

    -It concerns mostly unlimited, but crowd control (mostly MKII bomb and bind) and healing are way too strong, due to the time to kill being higher than normal.

    The fixes for this one are obvious. Make it so you can start at 1v1, rework the compensation (more damage, SP, ammo?), make special rules for Captain that forbid healing and crowd control.


    Battle Royal:

    -This gamemode is flawed since it relies on the kill credit system which is flawed in S4. The last hit is worth 2 points, and anything before that is worth 1 point or less, even if you deal 99% of a player's life.

    -It's even worse when you consider the target system: the last hitter gets 5 points, and aside from that still 1 point at most.

    -But the biggest issue is that the game gravitates around getting those 5 points (5 points is a lot), and the person in first place cannot have those 5 points (and also has their position revealed to everybody). It means that when there are several good players, the first place changes constantly, and in the end it feels like whoever wins just got lucky that they happened to be in first place at that particular moment. Basically, it's like if people had pity 5 in touch down whenever they were down by 1 touch down or lost in points.

    -It also creates situations here the best play is to, for example, let yourself get finished off by an amateur because you don't want to let someone more dangerous get the 5 points, or choose to not kill anybody when nearing first place because you don't want to be in first place, which isn't how games should be decided.

    This game mode cannot be fixed completely until points are given more adequately, but removing the 5 points on killing the first place would be a start (I like the target though, it makes it clear where you'll find people to kill)


    Chaser:

    -As long as the Chaser cannot run out of HP, the chases are always going to be one sided. In gun matches, unless enough people bring rail guns, the Chaser is guaranteed to kill everybody if they play well enough no matter if they are against better player. The Chaser needs a nerf, at least in unlimited.

    -We all know rail guns in Chaser are an issue, even though I like that it provides the chased with the means to defend themselves but hitting that huge reaper thing is way too easy, and it doesn't help the user in getting better aim. I do not think any gun or sword should be able to damage the Chaser by damaging the reaper thing.

    -Once again, the target system and bonus points are what ruins the mode for me. When you're first, it's extremely unlikely that you survive if the Chaser has any idea what they're doing, and honestly very often it's even detrimental to try to struggle and waste the chaser's time since you're also buying time for everyone else on your team, everyone else you're competing with. But more than a matter of points or winning, it's a matter of fun, as the first place you spend most of your time watching others play because you got hit twice in the head by submachine guns during the first 20 seconds of a round and it's enough to kill you.

    -The worst part is, not only does the phenomenon I described for Battle Royal still applies, there is another element of randomness specific to chaser, and that is, the order of the chasers. Because of how much point being the Chaser represents (at least in unlimited), whoever gets to be the Chaser last is vastly advantaged, because he gets a lot of points without being penalized for having a lot of points.



    Sorry if it wasn't very interesting, it's just that all of this seems obvious to me and I thought that somebody had to point it out, though I have no trust it's going to change anything.

    I am of course open to criticism and if I said something that is not factually right or made a leap of logic somewhere, you are welcome to point it out.

  • Siege is actually one of the few well made modes. The capure points may not win you the match directly but they give you a lot of points for capturing (5 for capturing + points from pickups).

    If it wasn't working that way, then ppl would just ignore the capture points completely until the last minute of the match where the win will be all decided on who gets lucky to capture more.

    The only thing that ruins that mode are the intsant respawn buffs.


    Captain mode is flawed but there doesn't seems to be much better solution. At leats you get HP compensation unlike in other modes.

    The problem with that mode is that team with heals usually wins unless both have that.


    I can agree about Battle royal. The whole mode is pure randomness. Skill matters but you can be screwed pretty baddly by rng and ppl targeting you when you are not target. Kill steal is an issue and you can get spawned on the other side of the map away from the target player.


    I kinda agree about Chaser mode as well but there isn't much that can be done about it. Maybe the Chaser should get less starting time and gain more time with kills. You can still win if you know how to play smart - when to run and when to do points on the chaser.

  • To me, Chaser is the only thing I have issue with, and the most basic solutions to those issues are:

    -Points:

    1. Random kills do nothing

    2. Target kills give 5 points each

    3. People left over at the end of the round still gain 10 points if they are alive, 5 if someone is alive but they are not.

    4. People left over at the end will negate the chasers score by 2 for everyone left.

    5. No points for damage.

    ^ Most points are to kill off team farming.


    -Chaser stats:

    1. No issue with HP

    2. Loose the added stamina regen.

    3. No damage bonus for players, object would be ok with those walls, but not players.


    As for your points:

    1. Chaser HP is not unlimited, also, it is called chaser, not antivirus. You are meant to be chased, not kill. It requires teamwork to stop the Chaser from killing everyone, but too many decide to wait quietly for their turn to die. That is the issue.

    2. Rail guns are a problem everywhere.

    3. If a target lasts long enough, they still can gain points even if dead by the end of the round, not to mention I have seen plenty of targets last the entire round, it depends on how much support there is and skill gap.

    4. Randomization really is the only way to go, If people just got to go in order, there could still be repeats (Which in turn could cause the better players to kill all but one and wait for the clock to run out) and then there would be issues with people coming in mid match (Which could theoretically ensure a match goes on forever if trolls can get it to).

  • Hey, thanks for the feedback !

    The capure points may not win you the match directly but they give you a lot of points for capturing (5 for capturing + points from pickups).

    If it wasn't working that way, then ppl would just ignore the capture points completely until the last minute of the match where the win will be all decided on who gets lucky to capture more.

    People capture because they want the free points, but it does nothing to contribute to winning (aside from beginning and end).

    Say, for example, you capture a point at the start. your team got X points from the capture (X = capture + point pickups). the the enemy team captures it immediately, they also get X points. From there, you can choose to not capture it at all until the last 30 seconds or so. If you succeed, you get 2X and the enemy team gets only X. If you fail, both teams get X points, so that base will have had absolutely no impact on the score. Now, here's the thing. if you decide to capture it mid-game, you get X points for your team, but you also give the enemy team the opportunity to take those X points back, which means that it creates a gap of exactly 0 points in favor of your team, unless you keep it all game. But then again, why not just capture it when reaching the time/score limit? The only things that matter are who captures first and who captures last. Everything else is irrelevant.


    Maybe the Chaser should get less starting time and gain more time with kills

    That would definitely be an improvement. I would also like to see the target change to the next in the scoreboard when a certain amount of time has passed in a round, so that the first place is really rewarded for hanging on (unrelated suggestion, but I forgot to give any in my original post).


    3. If a target lasts long enough, they still can gain points even if dead by the end of the round, not to mention I have seen plenty of targets last the entire round, it depends on how much support there is and skill gap.

    Yeah they get 5 points, like everybody else except the Chaser. You're not rewarded anything when your team survives, it's more like the Chaser is penalized for not killing everybody, meaning that your point only stands if the Chaser is one of the good players that has a chance to win.

    I have seen plenty of targets last the entire round yes, against amateur Chasers. For as long as I can remember, I have never seen a target last an entire round against me (excluding rail gun out of the map BS that we all know and love), and in unlimited mode it's the same for all decent players.

  • People capture because they want the free points, but it does nothing to contribute to winning (aside from beginning and end).

    Say, for example, you capture a point at the start. your team got X points from the capture (X = capture + point pickups). the the enemy team captures it immediately, they also get X points. From there, you can choose to not capture it at all until the last 30 seconds or so. If you succeed, you get 2X and the enemy team gets only X. If you fail, both teams get X points, so that base will have had absolutely no impact on the score. Now, here's the thing. if you decide to capture it mid-game, you get X points for your team, but you also give the enemy team the opportunity to take those X points back, which means that it creates a gap of exactly 0 points in favor of your team, unless you keep it all game. But then again, why not just capture it when reaching the time/score limit? The only things that matter are who captures first and who captures last. Everything else is irrelevant.

    The good thing about this mode is that you can approach the sitauation in different ways and outsmart the enemy.

    If you see that the oppoenents are relying too heavily on getting points from cature you can lure them on the poins and get them killed easily when they are doing it.

    If you see they are better than you at capturing the points, let them get all and then farm kills on them.

    If the enemies have captured everything and tries to farm points on you, you can sneakily capture the least defended point etc.

    The things are geitting even more interesting during the speed up time where you can solo capture points easily and get even more points from doing it.


    I have played this mode a lot and I really like the freedom that it offers and lets you adapt depending on the situation. Most ppl doesn't realize that and plays it only in 1 way. Imo it is much more compex mode even than TD and I woudl even say it is underrated.

  • If you see that the oppoenents are relying too heavily on getting points from cature you can lure them on the poins and get them killed easily when they are doing it.

    They shouldn't be doing that if they have a brain, since as I explained, only the first and last captures matter, and only for a small amount of points.

    If you see they are better than you at capturing the points, let them get all and then farm kills on them.

    That's the right play in any given circumstance, unless it's the beginning or the end of the match

    If the enemies have captured everything and tries to farm points on you, you can sneakily capture the least defended point etc.

    Which is pointless unless you are trying to get them to split in order to recapture it, which they should not do if they understand that it is pointless.


    Honestly I like playing it, and I don't think anything I have said is related to the reason why it isn't played more often, and I really don't understand why it isn't played more often, Skyline (I think it's the name) is a sweet map and ammo/SP/HP pickups are a great addition.

    All I'm saying is, it works well in casual play because people don't really think about what is the right thing to do if you want to win and not just to have a high score. But if people took this mode seriously, like in tournaments and stuff, it would play exactly like DM except for the first and last 30 seconds or so.

  • Even if you want to look at it as DM, it is still the mode with more depth cosnidering you can't just camp the same spot for the entire match.

    Even if it is not capture mode in the traditional form, it is still a fun mode on its own. I am not even sure traditional capture woudl work for this game and even if it does it woudl feel much diffrent.