Questions & Answer Session 3

  • Hey, I'm new to the forums but I have played S4 since 2009.

    All I gotta say is: if you want a successful game you have to stop being cheap.
    And by that I mean: we need a dedicated match server.

    The current problem with cheats and hacks is because the matches are mostly client-sided so variables like player stats (HP, Attack, Values, etc) are handled by the player clients and not the server. Even in TD the players won't be able to hold the ball if they lose the connection to the room master so this just shows the net-code was made to optimize the server resources.

    I remember the last time it was attempted to make the game server-sided, around Patch 23 or Dark Lightning, every user was unable to make the P2P connection so everyone was connecting through the relay tunnel (RT) which caused the server ping to go up to 50.000ms, and after that the "upgrade to the connection engine" that was promised back then never happened ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Alaplaya pls)

    So, that's it: if you don't want any hackers, just make the most you can server-sided, at least the match variables. If it's not possible, then why are the little few players left here still waiting for an actual anti-cheat solution? it just won't come, it's impossible, everyone with basic knowledge of programming knows it's impossible. As long as the client handles the match variables it will always be "hackable". Matches being completely server-sided is the reason in games like Overwatch or CS:GO the worst kind of hack you'll find is an aimbot, which is way easier to detect and prevent.


    I'll actually consider to come back to this game if this ever happens. The gameplay is awesome, the player experience is beyond garbage.

    EDIT: in other games I've made this kind of suggestion players tend to answer "bUt a wOrKiNG aNTi-CheAt iS pOsSibLE" no, it's not. Even the Xigncode which uses one of the best algorithmic heartbeats can be bypassed by a heartbeat emulation.


  • I remember the last time it was attempted to make the game server-sided, around Patch 23 or Dark Lightning, every user was unable to make the P2P connection so everyone was connecting through the relay tunnel (RT) which caused the server ping to go up to 50.000ms, and after that the "upgrade to the connection engine" that was promised back then never happened ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Alaplaya pls)


    Well, you have pretty much answered your own question why it is not going to work at least for now

    p2s2p is necessary but will double the lag that we have now. The melee lag is very noticeable even now let alone with p2s2p connection.


    They will need better coders than the original dev team working on a game engine anyone is barely familiar with and on top of that more expensive servers to handle the traffic.

  • I have to agree on this as well. I seriously felt that if S4 League had great management, it would have been as popular as TF2 and would have been a decent esport game today. It's sad that this game turned into P2W with all the stupid enchantments and the failure to address the hacking issue, toxicity, and other issues like bad servers that causes disconnect and relay tunnel really hurt the game in the long run. I hate the fact that couple of players moved to private servers (which divides the playerbase even more), but I can understand why (as mentioned from the issues above).


    I still have a really strong desire to play the game as long as Aeria fix the problems. As a player who has played back in late 2008, I will never forget the joy I had playing S4 League when it was at its peak and the time when force packs weren't introduced. Till this day, I enjoy this game even more than the current popular team-based games like Overwatch, csgo, etc. It sucks that I can't play during peak times since I am from NA and it prevents me from playing due to the empty server.

  • Pretty sure they all already know what the current issues are and what is causing them (for most of them at least)


    Making S4 server-sided ain't easy to do and it could be a high risk of messing too hard with the game itself. Not to mention that the anti-hack we have now dealt already with most of the hacks, i didn't see anyone hacking in a long time now

  • Well, you have pretty much answered your own question why it is not going to work at least for now

    p2s2p is necessary but will double the lag that we have now. The melee lag is very noticeable even now let alone with p2s2p connection.


    They will need better coders than the original dev team working on a game engine anyone is barely familiar with and on top of that more expensive servers to handle the traffic.

    So, it all depends if Aeria actually wanna give it a try and risk an investment to make the game better, they can hire better coders to optimize the netcode and get a better server to host the game, and they actually could fund part of it using the money wasted on the anti-cheat service (because it can and will always be bypassed).


    The netcode is everything that is wrong with this game, if it can't be fixed then this game will continue going down the muddy road it has been on for the last 7 years until it meets the KR server fate.

    EDIT: the P2W is also a problem but it has already been discussed in the previous QAs, and I actually don't care much about the freemium because I remember it's possible to farm permanent FPs from events so as long as they can balance the experience for the users it should be fine.

  • The p2p system in itself isn't bad but the disadvantages that come out of it make it worth considering another solution for example net neutrality while playing. Of course making it serverside is something that they are already considering but isn't something that can be expected really soonish because, as you may have said, it means to destroy and build up a new netcode

  • Pretty sure they all already know what the current issues are and what is causing them (for most of them at least)


    Making S4 server-sided ain't easy to do and it could be a high risk of messing too hard with the game itself. Not to mention that the anti-hack we have now dealt already with most of the hacks, i didn't see anyone hacking in a long time now

    probably you playing in empty server or private rooms or you lucky !


    The p2p system in itself isn't bad but the disadvantages that come out of it make it worth considering another solution for example net neutrality while playing. Of course making it serverside is something that they are already considering but isn't something that can be expected really soonish because, as you may have said, it means to destroy and build up a new netcode

    destroy and build isn't bad idea but it taking long time and maybe old players will back to the game if it get fix until every time to try fix something cause more bugs in the game

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Mxiyan ().

  • So, it all depends if Aeria actually wanna give it a try and risk an investment to make the game better, they can hire better coders to optimize the netcode and get a better server to host the game, and they actually could fund part of it using the money wasted on the anti-cheat service (because it can and will always be bypassed).


    The netcode is everything that is wrong with this game, if it can't be fixed then this game will continue going down the muddy road it has been on for the last 7 years until it meets the KR server fate.

    EDIT: the P2W is also a problem but it has already been discussed in the previous QAs, and I actually don't care much about the freemium because I remember it's possible to farm permanent FPs from events so as long as they can balance the experience for the users it should be fine.

    I see. full rooms hacked all time like 2011 :)

  • It is. The game simply has flaws that need to be fixed. Other than that, battleye is doing its job

    I play in random rooms from the EU 1 Server, the latest antihack we have is doing its job

    battleye is doing its job !
    if it's why they made a full bypass of it and crash others and blacklist them is that mean battleye is doing its job? if battleye allow that well we ok
    allow that will be ok keep such as this failure system and someone going to make a public gamebreak tools and game get break like always and i really now hope see this day soon and see what aeriagames going do in this case will keep battleye as it doing its job or going blame it and change to something better or just ignore everyone like always with tickets
    wish you luck guys bye


    god i was just talking about it and here we go

    that was a very fast lol now let's see how many hacks and how aeira will act

  • seems like you didn't understand what I wrote. still fine by me o-o

    Please mind to not share that link again

    it is. The game simply has flaws that need to be fixed. Other than that, battleye is doing its job
    that what you said and i got it the link was hide but now after someone release a full bypass and there will be like 999999 hackers in the game by tomorrow so what's the plan

    probably it's game need a lot of fix but that will request a lot of time i am sure dev's will never rebuild the game to fix all the bugs

  • it is. The game simply has flaws that need to be fixed. Other than that, battleye is doing its job
    that what you said and i got it the link was hide but now after someone release a full bypass and there will be like 999999 hackers in the game by tomorrow so what's the plan

    probably it's game need a lot of fix but that will request a lot of time i am sure dev's will never rebuild the game to fix all the bugs

    I'll report what you have shared here with the team and tomorrow we will look further into it. To fix the whole game, I won't deny that it might take several months to get the most annoying things fixed. Sadly the game has been lacking in security for a long time now. For the team is preparing for few big things that are imminent. Personally, I also think that they will never rebuild the game from scratch, if we want it to be still S4League with the same mechanic and gameplay. Maybe starting all over will require even more time than improving what is already at hand.


    We will let you know once we got more details

  • wow what a professional answer from somebody who wanted to become a GM at some point!

    Wanting and becoming are 2 different things.


    Not having new content is just as bad for them as it is for us. They have no interest doing nothing.

    Pretty much what Hella said, plus i can deal with people like you the way that GMs would like to, since i don't have that fancy tag :P

  • Hello. We were supposed to have a PM Letter last month. I prepared it, it was to be translated and posted... then things happened that made it pretty much irrelevant (the day of patch basically.)


    We are figuring a few things out and as such, next or the following week you will have the PM letter or more likely, a Twitch session. The date depends on how soon we have answers to a few questions.


    Apologies for the silence.