Posts by Yaita

    So you wouldn't like giving a skill that is broken to everyone but rather let some people use it

    Doesn't that make it even MORE broken

    Hella made a good alternative suggestion (even though i think this could be touched more radically, i like the general idea).

    Or at least nerf it to 22/22 before adding it.

    That's a really good idea! I dont know why they only added a point penalty to your total score, when you suicide...

    Would be more great if you actually get the kill, when your opponent suicides after you hit them at least once.

    My second suggestion in that post was meant to take these situations into account. You wouldn't get the kill points but an assist if you dealt at least 40 damage. As it is now you get the kill if you dealt a lot of damage anyway (and this should stay ofc) so this would be scaled for lower damage values.

    I am fine with not giving the kill points if you only deal 40 damage (but the assist instead). The team point is given (through this suggestion) anyway.

    Suggestion [DM]: Team B gains a Team-point (no individual score) for each suicide of a member of team A and vice versa

    Explanation: Prevent abuse on maps that allow suicide ( don't see a need for it in TD as suicides will have disadvantages to be weighted in)


    Suggestion[global]: Give a kill assist to the one who dealt the most damage (at least 40) to the target (of course do not count in the killer) no matter of how much time has passed, or at least increase the time frame (by a lot tbh)

    Explanation: award people for the work they have done. Don't take it away just because more than say 6 seconds have passed.

    Problem: This might feel strange, the moment a heal comes into play between the potential assist and the kill.

    /* Also I do not know how much the formula would need to be changed from how it is now, but like "most dmg in the last seconds before death" already exists. */

    EDIT-Addition: If 80 or more damage are dealt, instead award the kill.


    Suggestion[Chaser]: Automatically disable Spark rifle, Homing rifle, Mind shock and Block, add a clarification ban list so people know exactly what weapons and skills are banned

    Explanation: The cha.ser weapon limit has good intentions. Just make it default and unchangeable (the only times i see cha.ser being played on unlimited is when RM abuses MS) and add the other mobile autoaims to the banlist, they don't help the mode at all.

    Just bringing back the old DM pity. Not sure why it was removed on the first place. There probably is still an easy way to enable it in the code. It is probably the same pity that is used in TD or maybe make it like it for the 10 points range.

    The decay of the DM mode started with the removal of the pity.

    About the boots issue, I saw it coming from miles away. it was just as bad of a decision as the changes to the rg.

    You mean 10pt/20pt difference in DM for +3/+4TD pity? (correct me if i am wrong)

    I like the general idea. Does anyone know the exact numbers in damage increase? I feel like the +4TD pity is a bit too strong.. but then i guess 20 pt difference means quite the strength difference. So i suggest my beloved solution: Let's get it tested

    The boots were just an example. Yes we knew that before. What I am suggesting is, that instead of getting weapons like : this is what you get and it won't change for years, it would be nice if we had a chance to test, give feedback, test over again until we get to a somewhat satisfying point with the weapon. I think the system of how weapons are introduced or changed is just way too stale.

    PS: the forum symbols are annoying in threads like this. the +1 and the chaser for example make it so it looks strange or that i have to write in bad ways intentionally..

    Permanent - yes.

    That particular skill - no. The game is already broken as it is. Or at least nerf it to 22/22 before adding it.

    Skill of choice would be nice imo, because how do you obtain perm skills (outside of hp,block and anch from pet caps).

    // balance discussion dual mastery: normal dual to 15hp/20sp, unique 17/22

    Destroy it? You are like 10 points ahead, m8. if you get negative k/d while you are winning idk what to tell you.

    All you have to do is play a bit more carefully. Not to mention damage pity is already in TD.

    At this point i am curious, what kind of numbers are you suggesting Hella?

    Imo a kinda good solution needs to consider both "giving a team the chance to come back" and "not totally killing the game for the minutes of an active pity".

    I'd be open to finding a balance through live testing (i think throughout the last 10 years we definitely would have needed much much more live testing to keep improving. The boots' influence on TD could have easily been prevented for example). Part of my personal trouble in imagining numbers here is that i simply do not care about the team score.

    I don't remember exactly how it was but I don't mind being optional as far as it is not removed completely.


    /* what just crossed my mind is: It would be nice to have a message somewhere stating that it's active and to which team it is active (like some part of the HUD, i think bottom left has still some space for for example a green or red +3 or +4). Does not need to be big, wouldn't even be that much coding work. */

    No. Having buffs on the point makes the teams moving around instead of camping.

    Siege is probably one of the best balanced modes atm. You can chose to capture or DM depending on the situations and how your enemy plays.

    I see the camping point. Ofc this'd need testing.

    What helps with this might be the following idea: The Siege maps as of how they exist now have 3 capture points. If your team gets 2 and camps one ( a 5-0-0 or maybe 4-1-0 setup) the other team might full force engage another point.

    The idea is taken by LoL's dominion if that helps explanationwise.

    I disagree on the choosing part to some degree. The kill points are in no relation to the (very low) capture points. Gaining X points for a capture is imo useless when the enemy team recaptures and gains the same amount, when you didn't get anything of enough worth during that time (the random greens aren't what i'd consider enough - removal of all but points/hp could do the trick).

    I will just say if it is not broken, don't fix it.

    The pity has been in the game since the beginning even though it was optional at some point if i remember correctly. yet most ppl still played with pity on unless it was a tournament.

    I think (but maybe i am wrong) that point in time required you to make a pw to remove the pity (as arbitrary as it sounds). I'd be fine with that.

    Here now come some of my thoughts.


    //this is considerign all modes, some with higher priority

    Suggestion: Remove the buff system

    Explanation: The buffs don'd add anything useful to the game. Instant respawn (towards DM,BR and Siege) and tracking (towards DM) in particular are toxic in my opinion. To make an example: DM is about getting information about enemy movement, locations and weapons at locations. Tracking just disables defensive positioning abilities. Please just remove that.


    Edit-Suggestion: Prematurely disable the spawn protection the moment a shot is fired or an attack is cast

    Explanation: It feels strange being able to fire while being immune (even more so from the other side). Spawn protection is a nice thing, i remember the railgun spawncampers in TD firing at spawntimings. So keep it, but give enemies near the spawn a chance of counterplay.

    Death match

    Suggestion : limit every side's max points to half the match's total points (e.g 50 when it is a 30 min/100p match). Bring up a 2nd seperate score for the 2nd half. Add together both towards the end.

    Explanation: The DM maps aren't meant to be symmetrical, therefore can be quite unbalanced. Let's say there is a map where the A-side (same team strength) totally dominates [most extreme case : 50:0] a half. Sides switch, the other team dominates the half and make it to an ending score [extreme once more] of 50:100.

    This change is to prevent said kind of cases.

    Problem: S4 has a character system that allows for half time switches. This is a nice system, meant to be able to bring counters or simply switch playstyle after half time, meaning, the 2nd half might be meant to overpower an opponent's score.


    I'd like to give this a time frame for testing. If it fails or is disliked due to named or other reasons, just take it back, no trouble.

    Touch down

    Suggestion: Make all maps symmetrical (point or axis, depending on the map of course).

    Explanation: There are some specific locations causing interesting interactions that should or should not be there on both sides equally. If i am going to make a map-thread i'll bring this up too, but this is not about a single map. (The tunnel spawn-wall-reset and the St-2 bridge pillar are known examples)


    Suggestion: Remove the drops from the objectives. Decrease (or set to 0) the points gained for a kill. Siege points are now obtained by

    [either] which team has more objectives under control (speed depending on how much more: +1 low, +2 medium, +3 fast)

    [or] how many objectives are captured at a given time by a team (meaning at one point in time both teams would gain points depending on how many objectivess they have captured)

    // might need a skill balancing (eg removing metallic, perhaps shield)

    EDIT-suggestion: capture progress isn't lost if the objective is left.

    Explanation: At the moment, Siege is just a different version of Death match. You can win by solely playing this like a DM and getting 2 points for a kill, while not caring for the siege points at all, which is i think not the intended version of this mode. The capture points go back and forth simply because you don't gain points while you control a point, but the moment you are capturing one. So let's bring the focus to control the objectives. The point drops (green) are imo made to make the mode what i suggested above but with point stealing potential, which is imo unneccessary.

    Hello fellow leaguers,

    this is a thing that has spooked through my mind for some time.

    How can we improve S4 regarding its gamemodes?

    Please consider this question to be somewhat systematic towards the modes. I'd suggest we bring up ideas that help whole modes, while map improvements for example have space in another (maybe later coming thread)

    S4 was (and imo still is) known to have massive potential, yet at times it feels underwhelming. Let's try bringing it to great heights.

    (Thread- naming-idea taken from Karasakal)

    ((if a thread like this already exists and i am too dumb to find it, please do tell me)

    Kind regards,


    I don't really care if i win and what becomes of my statistics tbh. Joining a losing match is no trouble imo.

    What i consider trouble though is falling back early, farming points like crazy in comparison to the other team, tie TDs in 2nd half and win because of the huge point advantage. Maybe it is because of me, that this is not that rare of a case in the games i play.

    If a game is totally dominated, better end the misery imo, and perhaps shuffle teams afterwards. Playing on a 4+ pity feels so wrong. like yes you do the damage and often times still get crushed.. just a lot slower. (this might be a side-effect of highranks grouping up against public though, i cannot tell)

    At least for competitive matches (and for being able to do training towards those) I (though i'll make a point for pity some lines later) ther should be a possibility here.

    I'd be fine with making it optional. It is not like ppl wouldn't join your room (you could make it a visible room-property-column in the channel-lobby just to clarify - should be "on" by default)

    New players might benefit from pity, but the votekick to them is a much bigger threat than losing the pity. (if it was made optional, and the default was to be with pity - new players creating a room wouldn't have the trouble here)

    Hello fellow leaguers / staff members,

    this is a problem that (to me) persists for a few years now (i tended to forget that i wanted to write about it, before doing so).

    What happens is, that after clicking on "community" in the top menu ( does not matter if channel- or room-lobby), the window (friend-list, combi, blocklist) opens after some delay, but from the point of clicking, the client won't respond anymore.

    Win7 Taskmanager tells me, that the usual RAM-usage of S4 league is somewhere between 1.6 and 1.8 GB . Now after clicking it slowly climbs up to about 4GB before the process is terminated.

    This has occured on >2 different computers.

    Any idea how to solve this issue?

    // Do the sizes of friend- / blocklist play into this?

    PC1: I7 2630QM, 16GB DDR3 , GT550M

    PC2: Ryzen 5 2600, 16GB DDR4 ( on 2133MHz), GTX 760

    Both running Win7 Pro

    Kind Regards,



    Senty Nell:

    -not an easy one. The nell is slow, short ranged and stationary. I propose testing buffs in >=1 of the following directions:

    - Increase the range (i bet there is still someone running around with a +20% range chip on a Nell)

    - Decrease the casting time

    - Increase its hp

    - Let it stay alive over its owner's death (duration or unlimited)

    Sentry Gun

    - This one has a bit less trouble than the nell because of its range. A slight buff would be nice. Autoaim needs to be considered though, so i'd keep the range as it is. The hits on the crosshair of its victim are nice.

    -slightly better reaction time

    -slightly higher FoV

    -slightly more dmg

    -increase the amount of hits per burst (i'd suggest this should only come with a little reduce in damage and perhaps an improved firerate ( like keeping the time for the full burst the same) but this of the changes i list is I think the most dangerous one)

    Mind Shock

    - half the firerate and turn up the after-shot-delay approprietly (back to how it was tbh) , increase the damage by 70~80%. This is to decrease the damage a bit, while making the user more vulnerable unless they are willing to take a canceling skill like shield or invi.

    -Reduce the margin of its autoaim, increase the range a bit. Perhaps go a route like "if penetrating walls, increase the range by the width of the wall up to 50% of its original range". This requires a lot of testing.

    Mind Energy

    - Reduce the firerate to 1/3 of the one now. Double the healing. Range reduced by 50% (maybe even more)

    -Healers now take 30% more damage while linked to someone via mind energy.

    - increase the sound range

    These are to give the opponents better ways for counterplay. the healer is now more immobile if he is without a canceling skill, more vulnerable and needs to stay closer, which allows for better AoE counterattacks.

    The sound shall make it so the enemy team can hear a healing process from further away and start reacting.

    // other possibilities that could be considered (balancing out against the above listed):

    -Healers pay health to heal others in a 1/4 ratio

    - limited ammo (though i don't really like this)


    Rocket Launcher

    - Give it a clear visible indicator that shows ( to everyone who can see them) how far it is charged up

    Rescue Gun

    - double the relaoding time

    Lightning Bomber

    -random damage is dumb; This needs a remake on its damage calculation or even working mechanic.

    For a start we could try give this a fixed number between 100 and 120 as % of max health in damage, where those % get equally split amongst all who've been hit. ( in the case of 120 this would cause 60% of max hp in dmg to 2 opponents (sentrys do count).

    - Reload time increased by 200% (could as well remove the + 1 mag enchant and we wouldn't have the problem)

    -Force Pack no longer gives +1 magazine

    Earth bomber

    - Reload time increased by 200% (could as well remove the + 1 mag enchant and we wouldn't have the problem)

    -Force Pack no longer gives +1 magazine

    Mine gun

    - imo fine, perhaps a marginal increase in reload time

    MK2 -weapons

    Gauss Rifle MK2

    - I really like this one, apart from the randomspray that is. The overall accuracy is fine, the tradeoff for its dps is Gauss-like being very slow while shooting, as well as a high after-shot delay.

    -The right click has a high windup time, which is fair considering the effect. The sp-cost is high, mayber there could be a little bit of tinkering but not much.

    - The biggest one I request here is a fix in how the right click works. It is possible to consume ammo and sp for the right click and not shoot (canceling it out via shield for example). The consumption should happen the moment bullets are fired, not before that. If i accidentally cancel the shot, i don't need to be crippled by having less sp and ammo. (as i just remembered, that goes similar on Canno and Railgun. Haven't encountered it elsewhere, perhaps there is more)

    Lightning Bomber MK2

    -perhaps reduce the damage to 0 and have it as utility only weapon. This way it stays unique between the other bombs

    - SP could start reloading instantly when being hit, slow could persist a bit, maybe the duration can be set down by 20%

    - Reload time+200%

    - Force Pack no longer gives +1 Magazine

    Turret MK2

    -same as with Turret.. no idea


    - Ammo refill should come from the spare Ammo of your target. As it stands 2 people can spam bombs all over the place (1 throwing the other one refilling him). This would stay the same for all guns on unlimited ammo and kill the possible bomb-abuse. Also it would cut a limitation of design space.

    -Double the reloading time anyway

    -Reduce healing to make standard rescue gun a real choice compared to this one

    - Make heal-orbs accessible for the opponents just as it is for the normal version

    Burst Shotgun MK2

    - I would do the same as for the Shotgun for a start.

    Light Machine Gun MK2

    - I have it, I don't play it, I have no idea


    Skill Mastery

    - not many people seem to play it, though that doesn't mean much. Atm i have no idea if this'd need change.

    HP Mastery

    - add "If the wearer would be 1hit killed from full hp by a non-headshot, instead he survives @ 20 (arbitrary)hp"

    (see Storm Bat and Rail Gun)




    -Decrease the base sp consumption;Increase the sp consumption when being hit.

    The idea is that you can stay up longer if ignored, but active countering is a bit more effective ( the reduced base cost compensates this at least but only partly)


    - make the name real, not a blur but real invisibility. there should be some tradeoff though. Having a potential very big head start in DM can be fatal. This could be something like

    "can only shoot 2 seconds after leaving invisible, makes an audible sound when leaving invisible"

    Or perhaps it just consumes more sp, or doesnt have a windup animation and turns you invisible instantly for up to 8 seconds (or shooting) with an internal cooldown of 30 seconds. All of this requires testing


    -Increase the range by I don'T know 70-100%

    - The description says something about sending the info to team mates. Since not everyone plays as premades on voicechat how about sharing the effect with teammates in a small area.


    -Similar approach to the one i made for Flying

    Decrease the base cost (maybe not even that); Increase the cost on being hit by somewhere between 50 and 100%

    This doesn't change much to the use as cancel skill, but makes the protection aspect more vulnerable


    -When they changed how object attack works, this also went to totally kill the skill. Increase the hp or revert how object hp work ( i honestly liked 1hitting objects with PS or CS jump attack)


    - good skill, good casting time, projectile speed and after-use-delay. Nothing to say


    - absolutely no idea

    Somewhat late to the party, but what do I care.
    Now, of course i might go wrong here and there, but let's see anyway. And well.. some changes can't stay as simple as changing a number.


    - When trying to balance out a weapon or a set of weapons, there could be a test-shop with the new versions (no real money charge of course), sold as different items (still considered the same weapon to not be stacked similar to gauss/mk2gauss) So that we could try out even wild versions for a limited amount of time (e.g. the pushback shotgun down below)


    Vital Shock:

    -This needs a change in function. I am not too imaginative, i'll leave this to more creative people.

    Metallic Fist:

    -Match the animations with the range; often it feels unnatural being hit by the left clicks

    Iron Boots:

    -Reduce the base movement speed to 110. I feel like a good designed battle-version of the boots (and that is what i'd like to see) should be below the dagger's.

    - Change the right click as follows: Remove the fixed range. New: Hold down right click for as long as you want to travel (if this'd be too flexibly we'd need to see about it). Remove the base cost. Increase the movement cost to 2.5 times (the number is chosen arbitrary, but you'll get the idea) the cost of sprinting with the boots over the same distance (perhaps a x5 while holding the fumbi)

    - i do not like the new combo - i'd like to see an overhaul here (I think i liked the first attack of the old combo - short range, fast cast, moving forward a bit - just the rest of it had bad design)

    - Take away the sp cost from the kick you make when left clicking while in sprint or right click stance. Reduce the casting time and/or increase its travel speed so that people sprinting can be hit from the back ( the nerf on its range was justified, at best buff the range marginally)

    - ^that same cick can be "stored" via a perhaps unintended mechanic. Declare it fine. It makes the weapon a little bit more versatile, but there is the payoff for using the mechanic in not having the combo available for the time being.

    Exo Scythe:

    - Match the animation with the attack range of the combo

    - the combo peaces are unique and interesting, i'd leave them be. Perhaps make a tweak at the heavy attack, though i don't know what it's look like (maybe so that it can be chained into the combo?)


    - i do not know the weapon enough

    Sigma Blade:

    - Match the animations to the attack ranges.

    - give it a more reasonable unawakened combo (below average (if there is such a thing) power level because of its versatility)


    - i do not know the weapon enough

    Twin Blades:

    - I feel like the timing-nerf of the combo was a bit too much. Slightly go back here.

    Spy dagger:

    - right click: significantly lower the base damages of the individual hits (arbitrary numbers: 20-20-10); slightly decrease the time between hits; slightly reduce range on the 3rd hit. Give bonus damage depending on how many times the right click hits (more arbitrary numbers: 20/50/80) .

    Storm bat:

    - let the jump attack crit be a 1shot (see hp mastery)

    Counter sword:

    - i simply still today do not see why the CS was nerfed to where it is now. Revert the dmg values back to original. They were fine imo.

    - Take back the little pushbacks in the combo, they feel unnatural and make it worse than it needs to be.

    Plasma sword:

    - Increase some damages on dashcrits

    - take back the little pushback on the dash (same as with CS)



    - Since there is now damage falloff over distance (man, would it be nice if they gave us all the numbers like what dmg value on what bodypart and the calculation for the falloff) I would like to make a ranking on how i feel the dmg falloffs could be compared (1st has the highest falloff).

    Assault Rifle > Submachine gun~Dual magnum >Smash Rifle > Gauss Rifle ~Semi Rifle (@no falloff)

    Dual Magnum:

    - can't say a thing; have them, don't play them, barely ever see them

    Assault Rifle

    - Now i really like the idea of non-random patterns, so i'd like to see a change here. (for the assault and the range i psopose it for i would however leave a little exception for it). Now, first 5~7 bullets in a fixed pattern, the shape could stay similar, while those first bullets would ofc stay closer. After that it gets random, more wild and less precise. I'd leave the damage as it is, while giving it a high falloff curve (dmg-wise) starting after a low-ish range (i'd need a precise unit measurement system for this to be more clear)

    - i really like the shot timing and firerate and not being bound to burst on this one. This shouldn't be touched

    Spark/Homing Rifle:

    - I honestly have no idea. I find the idea of the portable autoaim disgusting to be honest. One thing that came into my consideration was giving them both a low projectile speed, but i don't see that go to useful places

    Smash rifle

    - Again, make the pattern non-random. Pattern resets only after not firing for .8 seconds (just an estimate. This number could totally be played around with.

    -Damage could be turned down a little bit, falloff is quite fine, i'd say

    Semi Rifle

    I don't know if there is falloff. if so, remove it, else this is just fine.

    Submachine gun

    - I feel this needs a slight buff compared to smash and assault. Since i (hopefully) turned both off them down a bit I'd leave the SMG for now

    Gauss Rifle

    - the unloved one, huh. I imagine this is because of the low movement speed mostly, and that it becomes somewhat difficult to adjust the pattern at higher ranges. Dmg-wise i'd leave it as the monster that it is. I'd take the approach of making it a Semi-ish weapon without scoping but more damage and no burst-"obligation", meaning i'd slightly reduce how far the pattern varies away from the crosshair ( the number for the reset staying the same)and taking away any dmg falloff ( if there is any)

    //other thoughts of mine would consider this: taking it more into the direction of the HMG or the other midrange rifles. Now of the second category we already have enough. Going towards the hmg feels weird to me, because this weapon is known to be precise (also thanks to its fixed pattern) so the short-range mass killer seems not fitting)


    Air Gun

    I'd like to see more weapons being played on unlimited ammo. This one being mostly used either defensively or invader-like in TD could see the infinite ammo. I'd try a 2-clip in any case though.

    Burst Shotgun

    Get rid of the random spray for a start.

    Apart from that I'd try going some direction like increasing its firerate by a 50% and decreasing its damage by 1/3 so the output over time stays the same if everythign connects. Revo just has been the traditional 1shotter and we don't need 2 so very similar weapons in this category. And ofc you'd need to adapt the pushback to the firerate at least the same way as the damage (maybe even lower).

    //If we want to get creative, we could make this the pushback machine, turning down damage much more heavily for the gain of pushback/sec


    - Make the pattern non random. The DPS if everything connects is fine for a gun that wants to run, the pushback a nice plus on that. This would make a buff and I'd be willing to see if it could work out that way


    - fine for now

    Heavy Gun

    Light machine gun

    - slight damage buff for now, and get rid of the random pattern


    - I have tried to make this work in TD. i have only found St2 so far and only against low~mid-skilllevel, while having an at least slightly superior team. One is a burden with this. It just doesn't feel right in this game. The concept doesn't fit. It is by far too slow. Sure powerful, but what does power mean, when everyone is gone before you have even mounted up. I don't know. Total rework i propose, I have no idea about the direction though.

    Heavy Machine Gun

    - fine for now



    -unilmited ammo

    -2-hit everything on body (less dmg on feet resulting in more hits needed)

    -Make it so the zoom can be initialized while not standing at the floor. As it is now this is strange and disturbing

    - give it a crosshair noscope

    - remove the blow. Give the scoped attack the disruption from the noscope. Buffing the sharp like i propose, I think this should be enough. Also give the canno some breathing room


    - Give players the choice of the crosshair for this weapon. For almost 10 years I have trouble playing it because i can't get used to the default one. Else i really like this one. It is an interesting tactical and unique choice.

    Rail Gun

    - Revert the change. From the shooting mechanic it is too similar to the Sharp now. We dont need the almost same weapon 2 times. Sharp was superior in the mechanic because it doesn't have the big delay between releasing and the shot actually going off, but comes with lower damage and less FoV which is fine by me, even through the bigger scope. There is one more though. The old Railgun really had trouble getting into the game. Charging that long and having this much trouble to hit, it is imo fair 1shotting anything on the body when in full charge.

    (see hp mastery)