Feedback needed - Weapons, Basic


  • You want a buff on metallic fist @ normal attacks, when it has a huge range, a fast attack speed, huge mobility? Kindly consider getting your head checked.

    Exo Scythe, underused? Buff damage? Reduce cooldowns? Are you okay? What did you sniff? Exo Scythe is fine as it is, it has a disengage, an engage, does enough damage. While it's true you can use it to kill, it is also used for utility. When people were spamming the right click, cancelling and doing it all again, you people were like "NERF EXO SCYTHE, TOO OP" now you want to buff it again? lol? Make up your mind. Maybe underused in guns, but certainly not in melee.

    You want a +1% PEN BAT to ONE SHOOT a prem user? A bat critical already takes from 70 hp on strikes to 130+hp on bat slams, and you want it to completely kill a prem user with 170/167/160/177 hp with a +1%? How is this a balance, this is you trying to break the game with your ideas.

    Twin Blade barely has any cool, does over 9k damage because of a stupid bug, short delay on jump attacks and you want to further reduce cooldowns on it? What.


    Plasma Sword is fine as it is, no need for buffs, just fix the range bug and it's good enough.


    It holds true that breaker's swing is too op and abusable, take in mind that Breaker has had its range overhauled, which means it no longer hits in air (while a bat still hits mid air), and it only hits anything on flat surfaces, the swing is really fast. does 57hp+ (with enchants), but the jump attack stays at mere 47. It was nerfed from over 60 hp to 47 and you guys are still asking for a nerf? do you want it to become a rubber hammer and do 10 hp per jump attack? "Jump attack's speed is too fast, barely any delay", how about you pick the hammer yourself and try it out yourself against anyone that has a clue about how a breaker should be used, will you be able to do the same thing as they do? no? c'mon, isn't it an easy weapon to learn, isn't an op weapon that someone can just use their forehead to play and get pentakill? so why can't you do the same thing as they do with it?


    Sigma just needs to not get stunned when hitting a revenge, like the boots effect on a revenge.


    Boots, more damage? Are you for real? Boots does the same ammount of damage as the old counter sword and you want it to deal even more damage? Nice logic.


    AR doesn't do alot of damage. Doesn't need anything.

    Buff SMGs? They are already strong on their own and you want them to be even stronger? What.


    Smash rifle already does low damage, has spray and doesn't further need any tweak.


    Gauss rifle is a heavy weapon, it ignores defense and its pattern isn't really random or difficult, do further tests.


    Air gun is fine as it is.


    Revolver already one shoots in close range, you just need to aim.

    BSG is fine as it is, maybe a bit more of fire rate, damage wise is okay.

    Handgun already does alot of damage, specially on criticals, but if it has a pinpoint accuracy, everyone would be solo'ing teams with it. It's good enough right now.


    A turret is well, a turret, it sits still and it will shoot, it will take damage. Just depends on positioning and timing. It lives to its name, either it's useless or it does a god defense.


    HMG is living its name, doesn't needa change anything.


    Sharpshooter does kill in one headshot critical or leaves the person low, this is already good enough. Unlimited ammo would be ok.

    Railgun - Yeah, nerf this. Remove the stupid slow, keep the penetration, remove knock back from uncharged shoots.

    Cannonade - It's fine as it is because it leaves to its name, pushes and it's not a weapon you wanna keep flying or leaving yourself in the open to shoot.


    While it's true that detect isn't really a popular skill, it was really popular in gun death match back then because it increased your map awareness. So it's very situational for invisible players or "pickup gangs".


    Wall, HP? What are you, Trump?


    The rescue gun mk2 is fine as it is, it doesn`t fully heal on criticals and it heals less than the normal rescue gun.

    BSG MK2 and BSG's difference is that one has faster firerate compared to its normal counterpart but also has less damage. (7 per palett)

    LMG MK2 has a chance to shoot two bullets from one barrel, which means damage, fine as it is, despite underused.

    Unique skills? They are called UNIQUE for a reason and they should stay unique.


    Having gunners talk about melee players about how melee is stupid in a GUN match and how a MELEE IS OP in a GUN match, when you are supposed to use your head and shoot, you have a gun, melee player needs to get near to you, learn to play ahead, prediction, but nope, let's all just say that melees are op. Let's say that a sword only player in guns is too op, let's say that breaker in a gun match is too op. Y'all have guns in a gun match for decoration. You have bind to stop a melee player, you have a semi rifle to stop a defending melee player, you have a melee to carry with yourself to defend from said melee players. You have snipers, you have a team, communication but let's just nail it on the melee person in the defense. (Of course charge attacks which break through revenge and any of the sort is the way to counter this). But no, any of you can say "lol spam only, no skill aimless", but I bet if y'all made a GUN ONLY room, everyone would bring a smash rifle, they'd smack you and you'd cry about it too because smash rifle has a "MELEE" in it. It's not simply "SPAM ONLY", since they sacrifice bullets they could be sinking into you for a way to defend themselves. If you can't beat spam, which is basically randomly combo'ing, get yourself cornered and picked out, then you are in no place to talk about it or say it's skill-less, just because you were given no chance. Because you too, wouldn't be giving them chance to hit back as you shoot them and sink that 40 clip onto their bodies.

    Even before the official "SWORD ONLY" mode came out, there were already rooms named "Sword only". Instead of crying about how there's not enough gun rooms, or how there aren't gunners left, most of the gunners just left because they were bored of the same thing. While it's also true that guns require a certain degree of skill (Aim, decision making, prediction) there are just certain aspects of guns that breaks that entire degree. Y'all are too stingy into playing a game, with 132852398 modes, and the only thing you wanna play is "guns" because when you tried said other mode, it was cancerous, it didn't fit your tastes, not what you were looking for, it was disgusting because you couldn't do anything into it, never tried to play further into it, have your morals like "stun only for the unskilled" or set your morals to just use whatever you think is fine and limit yourself. Those are features of the game and are there to be used. If you can't handle it, if you can't cope with it, if you can't come up with a counter for it, does it mean said mode is bad, needs to removed, nerfed or needs a balance?


    What even, mate.

  • Twin Blade is now good. Cooldown no problem. Do not touch.

    Twin Blades are probably the buggiest melee in the game. It feels kinda cheesy how you can jump attack then instantly use the ground light to cancel the post delay and run away. Not to mention you can chain infinite light attacks. DM games can be won with TB alone because of these glitches, and yeah I've done it myself several times.


    All that needs to change with TB is~

    -1:Remove the LMB hold attack, as it didn't used to have one before. This is the reason you can chain light attacks to infinity, as well as preform TB comets with its light attack.


    -2:Remove the ability to instantly use light attack after jump attack. The jump attack is so fast that you can't counter anyone who uses this strategy well.


    -3:Fix its darn hit-box bug. If you get frame drops or make contact with the first hit, but your character doesn't travel; the hit box still will resulting in what seems like a super long range attack. This could be fixed somewhat by making it so the character isn't stopped on contact with walls, but the problem would still happen if the TBer happened to get bound while executing that attack.


    take in mind that Breaker has had its range overhauled, which means it no longer hits in air (while a bat still hits mid air), and it only hits anything on flat surfaces.

    Breaker's vertical range was effected, but they also made the hit-box activate a little bit later than before on the JA. You just have to be a bit higher than before to hit someone who's air born or up on a higher platform. I've tested this with Nithorius not too long ago, but it pretty much requires you to also take Exo/Cs with it to hit people in those higher positions.

  • Yup, which was what breaker the most viable weapon for most of the tactics and complemented playstyles, has been nerfed once, has been nerfed twice, has been nerfed 3 times, next they will want it to do 1 damage.

  • Breaker's vertical range was effected, but they also made the hit-box activate a little bit later than before on the JA. You just have to be a bit higher than before to hit someone who's air born or up on a higher platform. I've tested this with Nithorius not too long ago, but it pretty much requires you to also take Exo/Cs with it to hit people in those higher positions.

    I'd disagree because it's simply impossible now to do mid-air attacks with Breaker like before, and I mean a specific thing here, so I could show you in-game if you'd like.

  • Counter Sword:

    - Slightly increase the damage of all attacks, by maybe 10-15%

    - Remove the 1 second delay from jump attacks


    I think this weapon was nerf'd too hard before and you should buff it slightly, but don't make it as overpowered as it was 3 years ago. Also, the delay on the jump attack makes no sense. Remove that please.

    CS is a defensive/counter weapon. It's possible (and not so hard) to do JA/Heavy criticals which both do around 60 damage each. Though I admit I don't like how the Fists can deal the same damage as a CS heavy non-crit, if they change the damage I'd personally think it should be a really minor increase. Like buff it to where PS/Bat is atm. 30 -> 34, this would make its crits do the same damage as PS heavy/Bat swing crits.


    I have no idea why they added that delay to CS. It's jump attack isn't spammable. It's post delay is long enough for people to RS/Stab you if they know what they're doing. The Boots have this 1 second CD too I believe.


    I'd disagree because it's simply impossible now to do mid-air attacks with Breaker like before, and I mean a specific thing here, so I could show you in-game if you'd like.

    Sure, i'm heading in rn for a bit.

  • I never read so much BS things about guns and skill in one time in a row. Like i don't even want to argue about all the sh*t things you said because there are so much to tell. Please, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't speak about it, because here, you did a big pavement for saying MOSTLY only useless things.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Yaethus ().

  • Karasakal


    I have one more suggestion regarding balance patches in general. I think you should be tweaking weapons according to the official modes. So if you'd wanna tweak a melee weapon, then you should be adjusting it differently for unlimited and swords only modes. While a gun would be adjusted differently for unlimited and guns only modes. This would be ideal because a certain melee or ranged weapon might be overpowered in unlimited mode but it wouldn't really be overpowered in the other modes. I hope you take this into consideration when you design the balance patches.

  • I never read so much BS things about guns and skill in one time in a row. Like i don't even want to argue about all the sh*t things you said because there are so much to tell. Please, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't speak about it, because here, you did a big pavement for saying MOSTLY only useless things.

    It's kind of amusing how you never bother to back up anything you say in this topic with arguments.


    I don't agree with some things he's said but he's right about unlimited players having no clue how to deal with swords despite having the tools to do so in the most common builds, and complaining about "spam" the moment they get hit by a Kata or sigma combo.


    Though there's one case where that doesn't apply in my opinion: Fists. With the current server delay getting out of their chain stagger consistently is a nightmare as an unlimited player (in melee at least there's CS revenge but right now in unli not many people bother with CS, for good reasons). Lag changes two things: A) you get hit from way farther than you should (at least on your screen) B) you also get hit with a delay that you can't accurately predict so even if you time your evade perfectly for right after you get hit, you might get your evade cancelled because the hit was delayed, at which point you're out of SP and out of options.


    And it's not like I'm the only one that struggles against fists in small fights. I've tried them out for a few games and despite facing off against good players, nobody seemed to have an easy time punishing my spam, aside from the rare cases where I got 2 shot with a revolver before getting in range. And I don't think many people can say that they're consistent with their revolver 2shots on opposing decently skilled fist users.

  • Suggestion: Balance- (Melee Global) Give all Melee have critical damage chance of their attacks command:Nerf slight on some attacks command. Nerf slight on special right click attacks.Critical damage should only increase percentage not double damage.


    Reason: PS, CS, Bat, and maybe boots have all critical damage on all their attacks. But there are just some lacking having critical damage. I think it should be fair if all other weapons receive much more critical damage. Balancing Melee like this is easy. Nerf all and adjust attacks commands a bit.( There are some atk that needed be Nerf more before adjusting to critical damage. Like Dagger special atk, Sigma awakening, TB charge etc..) Then adjust critical damage of all their attacks. (Normal attacks, strong atk,jump atk, special atk) All Melee should have critical damage in all their attacks and have good chance in activating them.


    This way you can forget increasing Katana normal atk, but Vital Shock need a major buff. Like I said before adjust their command attacks, then adjust to their critical.


    Last part of what I mean critical damage should only increase percentage not double damage. Let's say bat for example. I don't know the correct damage and I don't know how critical damage exactly work I'm just guessing. If bat does 70 damage on no critical, then on critical it does 140 damage. That is double damage on critical damage. What I am suggesting critical damage should only increase damage on percentage not double. Let for example breaker for every swing is 40 after nerf. What I suggested above. (Adjust atk command, then to critical) After triggering critical damage. The damage percentage % (15%30%?? don't know how much) change to 40 through 60 on critical damage. Having something like this can maybe help balancing alot of Melee.

  • have you ever played unlimited before?

  • You've listed only Melee so I'm guessing you're an OS player. As someone who's also an OS player I think critical are fine as they are.


    1: Weapons with Aimed Crits: Ps/Bat/Cs/IB/Fist/Vital & all guns that allow head-shots. (These are not effected by red chip crit buffs or enchant crit buffs. You can only increase this kind of crit damage by enchanting your gear with direct Attack +% chips/enchants).


    2: Weapons with random critical rate on them: Sigma/Twin Blades/Katana/Spark Rifle & Lightning Bomber.

    (These kind of crits can deal 2x damage or more as well. When the 3rd Katana hit in its combo crits it deals 60 damage, where it normally deals 20 when it doesn't crit, and that's 3x damage! The spark rifle deals near 25 damage when it random crits instead of it's listed 8 damage. Also these kinds ARE effected by red chip and enchant crit buffs & Attack +% chip/enchants).


    3: Weapons that normally do not critical hit at all. Spy Dagger/Breaker/Homing Rifle/Sentry Gun/Sentry Nell/Air Gun

    (Only with random crit enchants & Red Chips can these weapons preform critical hits. But without the Red Chip Gloves/Shirt their crits are useless because they do not deal any additional damage. By using Red Chipped shirts/gloves you'll add up to 8% extra damage to them which makes critting with them somewhat useful, especially with stab. For some reason when random crit activates it makes all 3 stab hits crit. Heck, it also makes entire ammo clips crit if you don't move your camera too much).


    On a side note, I'm not sure if Sentry Gun/Nell is effected by crit chips or enchants. As they aren't the user preforming the attacks I doubt they receive the benefits of crit enchants from the players gear. (If someone knows please lemme know). Also personally, I don't want to see Fists or Breaker getting natural critical rates, it'd just break the game even more.


    Speaking of Fists, would it be such a bad idea to lower its damage give them a push effect like BR jump has, but on the Fists light attacks? I think it'd help players be able to escape the Fist cage a bit. It'd also help a bit in Unlimited to push other melee range players away quickly and follow up with a gun shot or something.


    Fist Light damage 30 -> 25 (Fist lights currently deal the same damage as CS heavy non crit).

    Dagger Light Damage 25 -> 20 (Mainly cuz I think dagger and Fist shouldn't have the same light damage).

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Fazoodle ().

  • I never read so much BS things about guns and skill in one time in a row. Like i don't even want to argue about all the sh*t things you said because there are so much to tell. Please, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't speak about it, because here, you did a big pavement for saying MOSTLY only useless things.

    Those aren't things I said though, those are things someone suggested in the 1st page of this post in which I just commented and how it's unnecessary.

    It's not just you who struggles with them, it's not just about timing either, it's just taking distance as much as you can when you see them incoming. It's not really easy, as well. Yet there are people in this post that wants them buffed, despite them having a lot of mobility and damage by itself, what a joke.

  • A good start to balance the game in a serious manner would be to highly reduce any existing stun effect in the game (with the three most overused being the CS Block, PS Stun and Bind). Those are the most critical issues, since they are breaking and slowing down the flow of the game by a lot. Never completely remove a players ability to move or fight at any time. It's one simple rule every competitive game follows.

    Apart from that, here is a quick list of things that should be changed or removed from existing weapons:


    • Reduce the speed effect and remove the rush attack on the Iron Boots, add a useful short-range attack like a sparta kick

    • Reduce the range and remove any stun effects from bombs

    • Reduce the ammunition of the rail gun to 1, make the reload speed higher and use a simple click to shoot mechanic

    • It's controversial, but replace every stun effect in the game with a push-back effect, see explaination on the top^

    • Reduce the damage of the revolver and burst shotgun, as they only require mechanical aim ("shotgun aim")

    • Reduce the cooldown on vital shock's flash attack by a lot. My personal suggestion to improve this weapon is to make the flash attack go through the body of enemies (ignore their collisions). This would be a unique attack and could be very useful in certain situations

    • The solid esper skill requires an overwork as it's currently totally useless. Remove the SP drain effect and let it be like a temporary shield (reduce every damage taken by 75% while the skill is active). Currently it's just a shortcut to empty your entire SP

    • The strong esper skill requires a nerf, in form of a damage reduction

    • The shield skill should not be able to cancel weapon delays, since this leads to players abusing it for rapid firing their shotguns

  • Quote

    • It's controversial, but replace every stun effect in the game with a push-back effect, see explaination on the top^

    Stun may be annoying but in gun it is not that OP. And bind isn't a stun btw, you can still shoot.

    Quote

    • Reduce the damage of the revolver and burst shotgun, as they only require mechanical aim ("shotgun aim")

    Yeah it's right BSG is OP right now, i didn't saw anyone play it alone. (i'm speaking of normal BSG). And for the revolver plenty use it but i don't feel like it's that OP, so idk

    Quote

    The solid esper skill requires an overwork as it's currently totally useless. Remove the SP drain effect and let it be like a temporary shield (reduce every damage taken by 75% while the skill is active). Currently it's just a shortcut to empty your entire SP

    Lmfao, you wrote something that would be the Opest thing in S4, 75% damage reductions ? Wake up. F skill is fine right now, it's like having a shield and still be able to do what you want to do. + blue esper is prob the one with best stats on it.

    Quote

    • The strong esper skill requires a nerf, in form of a damage reduction

    2min CD, at a range of like a bat, has the hitbox of a SS hit. So what you want it to be ? a skill that can't OS with 2min CD and a trash hitbox ?

    Quote
      • • The shield skill should not be able to cancel weapon delays, since this leads to players abusing it for rapid firing their shotgun.

    Like it or not, but Shield cancel is a thing that makes the game having a more smoothy gameplay. IF we should follow your thing, we should bann everythings that does this. So not comet, no flash step, no reverse jump, no AH, no bunny, no boomerang, no dagger cancel, no dodgingfly, no ghost sigma. Yeah, you got a game that'll become boring.

  • Stun may be annoying but in gun it is not that OP. And bind isn't a stun btw, you can still shoot.

    First of all, don't forget about the only sword mode. The unlimited mode may was the main mode of S4 League back then, but things have changed and the game is mostly about the dynamic sword combat now. Secondly, yes you can move while being binded. But if you play in anything larger than a 2o2, a bind hit is your safe death and no skill should be able to do that.

    Lmfao, you wrote something that would be the Opest thing in S4, 75% damage reductions ? Wake up. F skill is fine right now, it's like having a shield and still be able to do what you want to do. + blue esper is prob the one with best stats on it.

    Did you ever use the skill by yourself? Every hit taken from enemies reduces your SP, which ultimately leaves you with an empty SP bar in 95% of the cases, which also ends the skill immediately. Great, you now had a shield for 1 to 2 seconds, have the attention of every enemy in range because of the blue shining marker and are now completely exposed to your enemies without any SP left. It's not only a quick way to throw away your SP, it also is basically suicide in every room with more than 4 players.

    2min CD, at a range of like a bat, has the hitbox of a SS hit. So what you want it to be ? a skill that can't OS with 2min CD and a trash hitbox ?

    You can use it without a delay, it has no minimum SP requirement, lets you one-shot multiple enemies and doesn't drain any SP. Any more questions?

    Like it or not, but Shield cancel is a thing that makes the game having a more smoothy gameplay. IF we should follow your thing, we should bann everythings that does this. So not comet, no flash step, no reverse jump, no AH, no bunny, no boomerang, no dagger cancel, no dodgingfly, no ghost sigma. Yeah, you got a game that'll become boring.

    Wow, you just took a bug in the game which gives you a huge advantage and compared it to game mechanics with only a little impact or very small advantage. Congratulations.. that's not how you compare things.

  • Quote

    First of all, don't forget about the only sword mode. The unlimited mode may was the main mode of S4 League back then, but things have changed and the game is mostly about the dynamic sword combat now. Secondly, yes you can move while being binded. But if you play in anything larger than a 2o2, a bind hit is your safe death and no skill should be able to do that.

    And so what ? Stylish esper SHOOTING game (= definition of s4 league ^^). It's a gun game, like it or not it's s4 league, so having a bigger community (which is mostly CPD NF LMFAO) doesnt give a better impact of how the game should be. And sword is all about spam in v3+ so don't speak about dynamic things.

    Did you know bind was OP in v2 but not that much in v4+ ? Because it got CD after u binded someone so you have plenty time to take the ball and relay. You would have know bind wasn"t OP in a v4+ game if you played guns ^^/ Oh and yeah, you never see more than 2 bind in a v6 game. So i don't get what's you wanted to point out here, i feel like only sworders complains about the bind skill.


    Quote

    Did you ever use the skill by yourself? Every hit taken from enemies reduces your SP, which ultimately leaves you with an empty SP bar in 95% of the cases, which also ends the skill immediately. Great, you now had a shield for 1 to 2 seconds, have the attention of every enemy in range because of the blue shining marker and are now completely exposed to your enemies without any SP left. It's not only a quick way to throw away your SP, it also is basically suicide in every room with more than 4 players.

    Yes i did, and it's already fine right now, as i said blue ships got the best enchants. And yeah bro, this is how F blue skill works, taking damage to drain your sp bar and not hp, gj you udnerstand how it worked. And f skill doesn't consume sp when you activate it (the only one that consumes it is the style one ^^).

    Btw you forgot to say Blue f skill had a CD time WAY shorter than red one, so obviously it has to be less efficient since you can use it more. And about the blue shining marker well yeah, it's like every f skills, it shows when it's used, unfortunaly the blue one is the only one that stays over time.

    And make a HMG + Blue f skill in v4, it's called a destroyer in v4+ games.

    You can rush without the blue f skill btw, if i still remember well (i do) if you want to rush you better take the green one.

    Quote


    You can use it without a delay, it has no minimum SP requirement, lets you one-shot multiple enemies and doesn't drain any SP. Any more questions?

    Well i already told the cons about it + about the multiple target, if your team is dum* enough to be in line while there's a f skill in enemy team, well...

    Quote

    Wow, you just took a bug in the game which gives you a huge advantage and compared it to game mechanics with only a little impact or very small advantage. Congratulations.. that's not how you compare things.

    §5 GAMEPLAY

    a) The following "techniques" are considered allowed for use in-game and is not a punishable offense when reported:


    • Airhug


    Since you prob never read rules i'll show you this.

    And now a HUGE advtantage ? Why would shield cancel more OP than someone flash stepping ? Sorry but i'll be like you: OMG flash step is op, you consume less sp than normally, dodge is WAY more efficient, you take LESS damages while dodging, trick are made WAY faster.

    No one cares about your personnal feeling of what's huge and what's not. Shield cancel never won a tournament and if we don't speak about the RG canceling, it's never used or by a few players (when flash step, or boomerang are used by 50% of sword community btw).

    Sorry i'll not congratulate you of saying what you said.

  • The solid esper skill requires an overwork as it's currently totally useless. Remove the SP drain effect and let it be like a temporary shield (reduce every damage taken by 75% while the skill is active). Currently it's just a shortcut to empty your entire SP

    Whaaaaaaaat

    The blue F skill is probably the strongest. I'm using it on my airhug and my rush set and not having issues with stamina management. It counters bind and bomb, and has only a 30 seconds delay. It's also probably the best skill for a rusher since they can use it to turn all of their SP from Sp+ into HP when they have to defend a push. As long as you can aim somewhat, you can"t lose a gunfight with that thing off cooldown.

  • Yup, which was what breaker the most viable weapon for most of the tactics and complemented playstyles, has been nerfed once, has been nerfed twice, has been nerfed 3 times, next they will want it to do 1 damage.

    viable? still being the most weapon used and spammed.

  • Somewhat late to the party, but what do I care.
    Now, of course i might go wrong here and there, but let's see anyway. And well.. some changes can't stay as simple as changing a number.


    General

    - When trying to balance out a weapon or a set of weapons, there could be a test-shop with the new versions (no real money charge of course), sold as different items (still considered the same weapon to not be stacked similar to gauss/mk2gauss) So that we could try out even wild versions for a limited amount of time (e.g. the pushback shotgun down below)



    Melee


    Vital Shock:

    -This needs a change in function. I am not too imaginative, i'll leave this to more creative people.


    Metallic Fist:

    -Match the animations with the range; often it feels unnatural being hit by the left clicks


    Iron Boots:

    -Reduce the base movement speed to 110. I feel like a good designed battle-version of the boots (and that is what i'd like to see) should be below the dagger's.

    - Change the right click as follows: Remove the fixed range. New: Hold down right click for as long as you want to travel (if this'd be too flexibly we'd need to see about it). Remove the base cost. Increase the movement cost to 2.5 times (the number is chosen arbitrary, but you'll get the idea) the cost of sprinting with the boots over the same distance (perhaps a x5 while holding the fumbi)

    - i do not like the new combo - i'd like to see an overhaul here (I think i liked the first attack of the old combo - short range, fast cast, moving forward a bit - just the rest of it had bad design)

    - Take away the sp cost from the kick you make when left clicking while in sprint or right click stance. Reduce the casting time and/or increase its travel speed so that people sprinting can be hit from the back ( the nerf on its range was justified, at best buff the range marginally)

    - ^that same cick can be "stored" via a perhaps unintended mechanic. Declare it fine. It makes the weapon a little bit more versatile, but there is the payoff for using the mechanic in not having the combo available for the time being.

    Exo Scythe:

    - Match the animation with the attack range of the combo

    - the combo peaces are unique and interesting, i'd leave them be. Perhaps make a tweak at the heavy attack, though i don't know what it's look like (maybe so that it can be chained into the combo?)


    Katana:

    - i do not know the weapon enough


    Sigma Blade:

    - Match the animations to the attack ranges.

    - give it a more reasonable unawakened combo (below average (if there is such a thing) power level because of its versatility)


    Breaker:

    - i do not know the weapon enough


    Twin Blades:

    - I feel like the timing-nerf of the combo was a bit too much. Slightly go back here.


    Spy dagger:

    - right click: significantly lower the base damages of the individual hits (arbitrary numbers: 20-20-10); slightly decrease the time between hits; slightly reduce range on the 3rd hit. Give bonus damage depending on how many times the right click hits (more arbitrary numbers: 20/50/80) .


    Storm bat:

    - let the jump attack crit be a 1shot (see hp mastery)


    Counter sword:

    - i simply still today do not see why the CS was nerfed to where it is now. Revert the dmg values back to original. They were fine imo.

    - Take back the little pushbacks in the combo, they feel unnatural and make it worse than it needs to be.


    Plasma sword:

    - Increase some damages on dashcrits

    - take back the little pushback on the dash (same as with CS)




    Rifle

    general

    - Since there is now damage falloff over distance (man, would it be nice if they gave us all the numbers like what dmg value on what bodypart and the calculation for the falloff) I would like to make a ranking on how i feel the dmg falloffs could be compared (1st has the highest falloff).

    Assault Rifle > Submachine gun~Dual magnum >Smash Rifle > Gauss Rifle ~Semi Rifle (@no falloff)




    Dual Magnum:

    - can't say a thing; have them, don't play them, barely ever see them


    Assault Rifle

    - Now i really like the idea of non-random patterns, so i'd like to see a change here. (for the assault and the range i psopose it for i would however leave a little exception for it). Now, first 5~7 bullets in a fixed pattern, the shape could stay similar, while those first bullets would ofc stay closer. After that it gets random, more wild and less precise. I'd leave the damage as it is, while giving it a high falloff curve (dmg-wise) starting after a low-ish range (i'd need a precise unit measurement system for this to be more clear)

    - i really like the shot timing and firerate and not being bound to burst on this one. This shouldn't be touched


    Spark/Homing Rifle:

    - I honestly have no idea. I find the idea of the portable autoaim disgusting to be honest. One thing that came into my consideration was giving them both a low projectile speed, but i don't see that go to useful places


    Smash rifle

    - Again, make the pattern non-random. Pattern resets only after not firing for .8 seconds (just an estimate. This number could totally be played around with.

    -Damage could be turned down a little bit, falloff is quite fine, i'd say


    Semi Rifle

    I don't know if there is falloff. if so, remove it, else this is just fine.


    Submachine gun

    - I feel this needs a slight buff compared to smash and assault. Since i (hopefully) turned both off them down a bit I'd leave the SMG for now


    Gauss Rifle

    - the unloved one, huh. I imagine this is because of the low movement speed mostly, and that it becomes somewhat difficult to adjust the pattern at higher ranges. Dmg-wise i'd leave it as the monster that it is. I'd take the approach of making it a Semi-ish weapon without scoping but more damage and no burst-"obligation", meaning i'd slightly reduce how far the pattern varies away from the crosshair ( the number for the reset staying the same)and taking away any dmg falloff ( if there is any)


    //other thoughts of mine would consider this: taking it more into the direction of the HMG or the other midrange rifles. Now of the second category we already have enough. Going towards the hmg feels weird to me, because this weapon is known to be precise (also thanks to its fixed pattern) so the short-range mass killer seems not fitting)



    Guns


    Air Gun

    I'd like to see more weapons being played on unlimited ammo. This one being mostly used either defensively or invader-like in TD could see the infinite ammo. I'd try a 2-clip in any case though.


    Burst Shotgun

    Get rid of the random spray for a start.

    Apart from that I'd try going some direction like increasing its firerate by a 50% and decreasing its damage by 1/3 so the output over time stays the same if everythign connects. Revo just has been the traditional 1shotter and we don't need 2 so very similar weapons in this category. And ofc you'd need to adapt the pushback to the firerate at least the same way as the damage (maybe even lower).

    //If we want to get creative, we could make this the pushback machine, turning down damage much more heavily for the gain of pushback/sec


    Handgun

    - Make the pattern non random. The DPS if everything connects is fine for a gun that wants to run, the pushback a nice plus on that. This would make a buff and I'd be willing to see if it could work out that way


    Revolver

    - fine for now



    Heavy Gun

    Light machine gun

    - slight damage buff for now, and get rid of the random pattern


    Turret

    - I have tried to make this work in TD. i have only found St2 so far and only against low~mid-skilllevel, while having an at least slightly superior team. One is a burden with this. It just doesn't feel right in this game. The concept doesn't fit. It is by far too slow. Sure powerful, but what does power mean, when everyone is gone before you have even mounted up. I don't know. Total rework i propose, I have no idea about the direction though.


    Heavy Machine Gun

    - fine for now


    Snipe


    Sharpshooter

    -unilmited ammo

    -2-hit everything on body (less dmg on feet resulting in more hits needed)

    -Make it so the zoom can be initialized while not standing at the floor. As it is now this is strange and disturbing

    - give it a crosshair noscope

    - remove the blow. Give the scoped attack the disruption from the noscope. Buffing the sharp like i propose, I think this should be enough. Also give the canno some breathing room


    Cannonade

    - Give players the choice of the crosshair for this weapon. For almost 10 years I have trouble playing it because i can't get used to the default one. Else i really like this one. It is an interesting tactical and unique choice.


    Rail Gun

    - Revert the change. From the shooting mechanic it is too similar to the Sharp now. We dont need the almost same weapon 2 times. Sharp was superior in the mechanic because it doesn't have the big delay between releasing and the shot actually going off, but comes with lower damage and less FoV which is fine by me, even through the bigger scope. There is one more though. The old Railgun really had trouble getting into the game. Charging that long and having this much trouble to hit, it is imo fair 1shotting anything on the body when in full charge.

    (see hp mastery)

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    The post was edited 3 times, last by Yaita ().

  • Special


    Senty Nell:

    -not an easy one. The nell is slow, short ranged and stationary. I propose testing buffs in >=1 of the following directions:

    - Increase the range (i bet there is still someone running around with a +20% range chip on a Nell)

    - Decrease the casting time

    - Increase its hp

    - Let it stay alive over its owner's death (duration or unlimited)


    Sentry Gun

    - This one has a bit less trouble than the nell because of its range. A slight buff would be nice. Autoaim needs to be considered though, so i'd keep the range as it is. The hits on the crosshair of its victim are nice.


    -slightly better reaction time

    -slightly higher FoV

    -slightly more dmg

    -increase the amount of hits per burst (i'd suggest this should only come with a little reduce in damage and perhaps an improved firerate ( like keeping the time for the full burst the same) but this of the changes i list is I think the most dangerous one)


    Mind Shock


    - half the firerate and turn up the after-shot-delay approprietly (back to how it was tbh) , increase the damage by 70~80%. This is to decrease the damage a bit, while making the user more vulnerable unless they are willing to take a canceling skill like shield or invi.

    -Reduce the margin of its autoaim, increase the range a bit. Perhaps go a route like "if penetrating walls, increase the range by the width of the wall up to 50% of its original range". This requires a lot of testing.




    Mind Energy


    - Reduce the firerate to 1/3 of the one now. Double the healing. Range reduced by 50% (maybe even more)

    -Healers now take 30% more damage while linked to someone via mind energy.

    - increase the sound range

    These are to give the opponents better ways for counterplay. the healer is now more immobile if he is without a canceling skill, more vulnerable and needs to stay closer, which allows for better AoE counterattacks.

    The sound shall make it so the enemy team can hear a healing process from further away and start reacting.


    // other possibilities that could be considered (balancing out against the above listed):


    -Healers pay health to heal others in a 1/4 ratio

    - limited ammo (though i don't really like this)



    Throwing


    Rocket Launcher

    - Give it a clear visible indicator that shows ( to everyone who can see them) how far it is charged up


    Rescue Gun

    - double the relaoding time



    Lightning Bomber

    -random damage is dumb; This needs a remake on its damage calculation or even working mechanic.


    For a start we could try give this a fixed number between 100 and 120 as % of max health in damage, where those % get equally split amongst all who've been hit. ( in the case of 120 this would cause 60% of max hp in dmg to 2 opponents (sentrys do count).


    - Reload time increased by 200% (could as well remove the + 1 mag enchant and we wouldn't have the problem)


    -Force Pack no longer gives +1 magazine




    Earth bomber

    - Reload time increased by 200% (could as well remove the + 1 mag enchant and we wouldn't have the problem)

    -Force Pack no longer gives +1 magazine



    Mine gun

    - imo fine, perhaps a marginal increase in reload time


    MK2 -weapons


    Gauss Rifle MK2

    - I really like this one, apart from the randomspray that is. The overall accuracy is fine, the tradeoff for its dps is Gauss-like being very slow while shooting, as well as a high after-shot delay.

    -The right click has a high windup time, which is fair considering the effect. The sp-cost is high, mayber there could be a little bit of tinkering but not much.

    - The biggest one I request here is a fix in how the right click works. It is possible to consume ammo and sp for the right click and not shoot (canceling it out via shield for example). The consumption should happen the moment bullets are fired, not before that. If i accidentally cancel the shot, i don't need to be crippled by having less sp and ammo. (as i just remembered, that goes similar on Canno and Railgun. Haven't encountered it elsewhere, perhaps there is more)



    Lightning Bomber MK2

    -perhaps reduce the damage to 0 and have it as utility only weapon. This way it stays unique between the other bombs

    - SP could start reloading instantly when being hit, slow could persist a bit, maybe the duration can be set down by 20%

    - Reload time+200%

    - Force Pack no longer gives +1 Magazine



    Turret MK2

    -same as with Turret.. no idea



    MK2-Rescue-Gun

    - Ammo refill should come from the spare Ammo of your target. As it stands 2 people can spam bombs all over the place (1 throwing the other one refilling him). This would stay the same for all guns on unlimited ammo and kill the possible bomb-abuse. Also it would cut a limitation of design space.

    -Double the reloading time anyway

    -Reduce healing to make standard rescue gun a real choice compared to this one

    - Make heal-orbs accessible for the opponents just as it is for the normal version



    Burst Shotgun MK2

    - I would do the same as for the Shotgun for a start.



    Light Machine Gun MK2

    - I have it, I don't play it, I have no idea



    Skill



    Skill Mastery

    - not many people seem to play it, though that doesn't mean much. Atm i have no idea if this'd need change.




    HP Mastery

    - add "If the wearer would be 1hit killed from full hp by a non-headshot, instead he survives @ 20 (arbitrary)hp"

    (see Storm Bat and Rail Gun)




    Anchoring

    -fine




    Flying

    -Decrease the base sp consumption;Increase the sp consumption when being hit.


    The idea is that you can stay up longer if ignored, but active countering is a bit more effective ( the reduced base cost compensates this at least but only partly)



    Invisible

    - make the name real, not a blur but real invisibility. there should be some tradeoff though. Having a potential very big head start in DM can be fatal. This could be something like


    "can only shoot 2 seconds after leaving invisible, makes an audible sound when leaving invisible"

    Or perhaps it just consumes more sp, or doesnt have a windup animation and turns you invisible instantly for up to 8 seconds (or shooting) with an internal cooldown of 30 seconds. All of this requires testing



    Detect

    -Increase the range by I don'T know 70-100%

    - The description says something about sending the info to team mates. Since not everyone plays as premades on voicechat how about sharing the effect with teammates in a small area.



    Shield

    -Similar approach to the one i made for Flying

    Decrease the base cost (maybe not even that); Increase the cost on being hit by somewhere between 50 and 100%

    This doesn't change much to the use as cancel skill, but makes the protection aspect more vulnerable



    Block

    -When they changed how object attack works, this also went to totally kill the skill. Increase the hp or revert how object hp work ( i honestly liked 1hitting objects with PS or CS jump attack)



    Bind

    - good skill, good casting time, projectile speed and after-use-delay. Nothing to say



    Metallic

    - absolutely no idea

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    The post was edited 3 times, last by Yaita ().

  • bind

    change it so that when you get hit by bind, it slows you down for 3.5 seconds, gradually reducing your movement speed % until it reaches 0. Once it does reach 0, the player wont be able to move or jump for 1.5 seconds.

    you could also rework bind entirely and have it so that it is a deployable skill, kinda like block.

    you would aim at the ground, and a horizontal obstacle will be deployed, a tripwire.

    if a player touches that line, or obstacle, the player will be binded for 3-4 seconds.

    if possible, make it so that the player can only get binded if they step inside the obstacle from the front or back, not the sides.

    only 1-2 of these obstacles could be deployed at a time.

    this is because bind is very over powered.


    rail gun

    change rail gun back to when it was like in season 1

    this is because rail gun is very fast and over powered.


    twin blade

    make it so that after you do the jump attack, there is a 4 second delay after you can jump attack again.

    this is because twin blade is very easy to use and very hard to bypass, or counter.

    in gun rooms, someone defending with twin blades is impossible to get around unless you anchor over or have sp to maneuver around.


    iron boots

    change it to the way it was before

    this is because it is very hard to counter someone picking up the ball and rush in using boots


    mind energy

    make it so that everytime you heal, it drains your sp, drastically.

    this is because mind energy and healing in general is super over powered, it shouldnt be spammable, or at least less spammable.


    rescue gun/mk2

    same as above


    shield

    make it so that either the user still takes damage even when shield is deployed, but greatly reduced, sort of like metallic. then change

    the shield's big hit box so that it is more smaller and maybe wraps around the user from the sides.

    or you can make it so that the shield can only take a certain amount of bullets until the user runs out of sp.

    for example, a fully charged rail gun hit will take as much sp as a smash rifle shot would from any distance and vice versa.

    this is because in an ap game, shield is very durable and is very over powered especially if an hmg is behind it.


    anchor

    i am not quite sure on how to balance this skill

    perhaps, if you were able to cancel anchor by simply hitting the user with any weapon, that might balance it.

    but it also might completely break it to a point that it is not worth using.

    this is because using anchor is a very easy way to score, and is only countered by using bind or snipers.


    plasma sword

    make it so that there is a delay after you stun , 3-4 seconds.

    this is because people like to stun lock and stuns are very easy to hit and stop a person thats carrying the ball. one simple stun and that person's run is over.


    metallic fist

    same as above


    mk2 bomb

    make it so that the bomb's timer is longer and no longer makes your sp 0, it may take away sp still.

    mk2 bomb is very hard to counter due to its low timer on detonation.

    it is also broken because it takes away all of your sp no matter how far away you are.


    mk2 gauss

    make it so that the right click now knocks back the target (like on a shotgun or revolver) instead of sending them flying.

    or

    make it so that in the center spread of a right click, there is a short ranged rail gun left click (3-4 feet), and the surrounding spread is like a shotgun blast.

    this is because it is very hard to bypass a person with the mk2 gauss if you have the ball, it is also very hard to miss the right click of that weapon.


    dual magnums

    increase the fire rate and change the firing pattern, make it so that it fires faster than a hand gun and fires one shot at a time.

    if the gun still needs to be buffed, then increase the damage.

    this is because the current dual magnum is quite literally useless. it might only be useful to combo with anchor.


    gauss rifle

    reduce the critical hit damage, make the spray pattern more manageable.

    this is because one critical hit from a gauss would do about 75 damage from a person with high attack stats or with pity.

    this is way too high for a critical hit. no one uses the gauss rifle because you are unable to spray with it since the spread is crazy.


    breaker

    put a delay on the left click (3-4 seconds) and also reduce damage

    this is because breaker is very hard to bypass when you have the ball.

    it is also very easy to use since it has such a far range.


    counter sword

    make it so that you are not longer able to spam that one combo that everyone uses

    you either put a delay after you heavy hit (2-3 seconds) or

    make it so that when you light attack, you either have to go through the entire combo, or stop and wait until your animation is over before you can do anything.

    this is because it is very easy to spam the combo and be able to overwhelm someone very easily after the first combo.


    hmg

    make it so that it does a lot less damage and has a more controlled spread.

    this is because hmg is absolutely over powered in the amount of damage it is able to put out.

    a person with bad aim is able to do well with it because the spread is so crazy, it would hit players that you wouldnt even be aiming for.


    lightning bomb

    reduce the damage and area of effect.

    this is because lightning bomb is extremely strong, no one in the right mind would choose the earth bomb over this. since lighting bomb is able to slow down enemies, it does not make sense that it does this much more damage than the earth bomb that just pushes players. earth bomb should be the damage dealer and lightning bomb should be the crowd controller and not have both in one package. it should do around the same damage as the mk2 bomb.


    i did not specify on how much you should raise or lower weapons because i honestly dont know which values would work and am too lazy to find out. please heed my advice for i am an avid s4 league player and would want each weapon and skill to be as balanced as possible.

  • I actually read all of that and basically agree on everything except the cs and hmg. CS has already been nerf and is fine cause of the low damage output.


    HMG is easily countered with melee so I think that balances it even though sometimes it melts you as you get closer for a hit.


    Sadly all these suggestions I think won't bear any fruit.

  • Concerning skills and unique skills, personally I would think those skills should be kept unique.

    But with a plus side, there should be a down side too. For example the flying variations could alter the value so you move 10% faster/slower and consume Sp faster/slower, take more damage while you flying/take less damage while you're flying, etc.


    It doesn't have to be a straight buff, I feel that it gives the game some variety and a player can decide what is more important to his/her build.


    This keeps the skill unique, gives players who alreay own a unique skill some choice and doesn't straight up **** on players who only own the basic skill.

  • I actually read all of that and basically agree on everything except the cs and hmg. CS has already been nerf and is fine cause of the low damage output.


    HMG is easily countered with melee so I think that balances it even though sometimes it melts you as you get closer for a hit.


    Sadly all these suggestions I think won't bear any fruit.

    hmg + fly, and you cannot get close to hmg with a sword or else you'll get melted, unless you flank around, only way to actually combat hmg is to shoot from afar or wallshoot. it doesnt matter how much dmg it does, it pretty much makes it so that the player youre attacking aren't able to do anything, much like sigma blade's awakened combo. tanya's body

  • hmg + fly, and you cannot get close to hmg with a sword or else you'll get melted, unless you flank around, only way to actually combat hmg is to shoot from afar or wallshoot. it doesnt matter how much dmg it does, it pretty much makes it so that the player youre attacking aren't able to do anything, much like sigma blade's awakened combo. tanya's body

    Hmg+fly when everyone uses rail gun right now? good luck with that.

  • whysell is just right, even tho you are trash at aiming hmg will correct it anyway thanks to it bs damages and amount of ammos

    Yeah sure. The weapon with the largest spread in the game surely will "correct" your aim. /sarcasm

    I also have news for you. HMG had the same damage and ammo since launch. Only the fire rate and the movement speed was changed.

  • Yeah sure. The weapon with the largest spread in the game surely will "correct" your aim. /sarcasm

    I also have news for you. HMG had the same damage and ammo since launch. Only the fire rate and the movement speed was changed.

    Didn't i said your opinion didn't counted to me ? Such a waste of time to write to someone with such acknowledge of s4 league. :|

  • Hmg + Fly = gun them down from the distance, preferably with Rail Gun

    Hmg + Shield = use any explosive


    The fact that you have to combine hmg with a skill and it is still easily countered shows that hmg is nowhere near as op as you claim it to be.

    Now, this might be different when you're playing 1v1 or 2v2 unlimited. But given that 90% of the matches are OS it's not really important anyway.

  • Hmg + Fly = gun them down from the distance, preferably with Rail Gun

    Hmg + Shield = use any explosive


    The fact that you have to combine hmg with a skill and it is still easily countered shows that hmg is nowhere near as op as you claim it to be.

    Now, this might be different when you're playing 1v1 or 2v2 unlimited. But given that 90% of the matches are OS it's not really important anyway.

    you use these skills to make hmg even harder to counter, hmg is 100% op

  • you use these skills to make hmg even harder to counter

    That is the point of a setup.. Have skills that synergize with your weapons. Engaging melee opponents with revo+ shield in DM is an example for that.


    The moment a HMG has shield acitve, they are immobile. Think and take counter measures.

    If all else fails, there is a second half for counterpicks.


    hmg is 100% op

    no, it is not

  • you must be a sword player

  • you must be a sword player

    Yeah, like I'd talk about synergy if all I did was playing a mode with 2+2 passive skills ( I guess my signature also heavily suggests that I play SO all day ).

    If you go and pull ad hominem on someone, better make sure

    1. Nobody notices, because ad hominem is not a valid argumentation line

    2. You don't pull it, when it is wrong so obviously.



    Nightmarish made a point, even suggesting you counterplay. You just went ahead ignoring constructive discussion, claiming your opinion was objective. This thread is not about your ego. People are actually trying to help building a better future for the game we love.

    Yeah Hella and Night might tend to take the cynic route sometimes, but eh.. look through it, the points matter.

  • say what

  • can you guys not go into pure argument and say practical things? there is counters for every weapon and none of them are absolute on the top.

    counter fly hmg? just use ib to rush in and bomb their team he will be useless if his team is dead and everyone focus on him. mg goes through shield and staggers them causing them to have a need to rewind and u can take that timing to kill them,if those still doesn't work out,use invis and go on their flank with explosives/guns/melee that will cause them to need to turn around and u'll pinch them in with your team on the other side.so what are you talking about "op"

  • The problem here isn't the hmg+anyskill combo. Early on, if the hmg player got focused, there wasn't a lot of damage coming in.
    It used to be a popular invading style, to go flying underneath ST2 and pop up behind the currently defending team.


    That was pretty legit and the large spread made it reactable, but if there are other priorites on the board, such as an approaching fumbi, then if course you need to take him down first etc.


    The problem at hand is that we have enhanced skills that draw from an increased SP pool on a character that has increased HP.

    The FP/Premium stats made it so you don't really give up anything if you do not get your 30hp+ or SP+.

    Of course it still is a plus and useful, but when you decide to go for a shield, you cannot take it down as quickly as you used to be able to.
    And if you did, the user still has above 130 hp even without hp mastery.


    So if we want to balance skills and weapons, we need to look at how premium stats warped the whole thing to be way less tactical and much more overpowering.


    A lot of gameflow died with the inclusion of premium stats and enchants, if you knocked away someone with sp mastery and they have to dodge out of it, they still have enough sp to perform a walljump when they arrive at the GP on ST1. I mean, that usually was a shutdown. HP mastery users were only able to perform the walljump if there was nothing in their way.


    In terms of weapons, I personally find smash rifle, homing rifle, spark rifle, any bombs, airgun and breaker to be questionable inclusions (Might've forgot sth)


    Why? Because smash rifle sort of does the job a semi rifle and a sub machine gun would do, but I think it has a 50 shot clip? Yeah? And also a smash that knocks opponents away (Not all that great, but options are always a plus)


    Homing rifle and spark rifle both are bad for the game, you don't want to have aim assist in a highly mechanical game such as S4 League, what is the purpose of dodging and trying to juke bullets if you get hit anyway. They have an ammunition limit, which I think shouldn't be a factor to include for balance. Sure they will run out of bullets, but they can just go and SD or, you know, probably get killed before they are out of shots. The damage ain't that great, sure, but that playstyle shouldn't be taught as a standard to new players either.


    Bombs are such an unfun thing to begin with, when you are about to die, just toss one out and whoever defeated you will die too (or pretty much)

    They make it incredibly easy to break up groups in a team based game, that it discourages to actually group up. You have almost no time to react, so you are being punished for doing nothing wrong. They should be removed imo.


    Airgun usually only used in TD, is a pretty boring weapon, you defend successfully, jump to SD and have your shots back. I am not saying that the weapon is op or anything, I am just implying that defending with it is somewhat easier than defending with melee weapons (correct me if I am wrong)

    I also don't think that there should be weapons to be only useful in one mode.


    S4 league lived off mastery of certain weapons and it was very rewarding to get better with any weapon. You could build a character from the ground up and eventually come up with a unique playstyle. This has gone missing, this feeling of "I could try anything and improve"

    Because of several reasons of course, but those aren't asked for.

  • I just wonder if the HMG is so "OP" why barely anyone uses it unlike rg, bombs and boots? Having 2 hmg users in one team is rarely a thing but how many are using rg and bombs? Almost everyone.