PM Letter May 2018

  • It is nice that the hacking population has seemed to diminish. I only use Vote kicking to remove AFK farmers from rooms since that is a wasted space when there are more players that want in. I would love to see alot more new players given a chance to play with the main community. But it's not the Vote Kick itself that is a problem. It's people who are too competitive/salty to allow a new player who doesn't have yet the skills or gear to win that is the main problem of that. I would propose some sort of benefit for new players that isn't farmable like the Combi system to be implemented. Let's be honest, how many people with the master gear actually earned it by raising new players?

  • I would love to see alot more new players given a chance to play with the main community. But it's not the Vote Kick itself that is a problem. It's people who are too competitive/salty to allow a new player who doesn't have yet the skills or gear to win that is the main problem of that.

    Absolutely, the community is not really helping the game stay afloat when they make the new player experience as frustrating as possible. There are ways to have fair games even when one team gets an amateur. For example, when that happens to the enemy team I switch to pen stats after 1rst half, and when that isn't possible I play only with my dagger or hand gun, stuff like that. On the other hand, going all boots and bombs and rail guns and F skills against a team that already has a disadvantage is the safest way to ensure that nobody has fun.


    That said, I still think it's better if they play against other beginners. I can't imagine it's very fun to get farmed by people with more than 2000 hours of experience in the game when you have less than 20. Imo the level cap on the main channel should be removed (so that alt account aren't forced to play on the beginners' channel) and the level limit on the beginners' channel should be raised (I've met pros that honestly deserved their spot on the beginners' channel, but extreme cases aside it wouldn't hurt to allow at least amateurs and super-rookies in, if they feel that it is where they belong).


    I also think chips are a significant barrier of entry for new accounts, since even lv4 require a fair amount of pen and you also need a permanent set. A solution to that would be to add chips in the level up rewards, and to make it so chips are transferred to the inventory after a non permanent item expires.

  • I don't think one should really dumb down that much. To me it's about being friendly and good sportsmanship. I was raised by the same fires these new players get. It was tough but people were friendly to me for the most part so I warmed up to everyone. We as the elders should be a shining example of good play and at the same time show them what they should aspire to be.

  • Found something interesting with this:

    f4300183b143423d2afba388f4a0ba62.png

    tzZOw5R.jpg

    It is sure weird, the bar looks more full but S4 DB says there are less people on than the small bar...

    S4DB shows the server selection and you show the channel selection.

    Congratz, what's the point you are trying to make here?



    edit:

    Here look I just took a screen of either.

    English1 looks identical imo. The difference on the other server might be due to S4 not making the bar any smaller.

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    wdfBNB3.jpg

  • I don't think one should really dumb down that much. To me it's about being friendly and good sportsmanship. I was raised by the same fires these new players get. It was tough but people were friendly to me for the most part so I warmed up to everyone. We as the elders should be a shining example of good play and at the same time show them what they should aspire to be.

    I don't like matches that are too easy or matches that are hopeless. If we let beginners into our games without trying to compensate in some way for their presence, we end up with a lot of that. And we both agree that we shouldn't kick them on sight. I'm not saying we should "dumb down" for their sake, but for ours.

    Beside, I don't believe that playing against the best players is going to help beginners become just as good. As it turns out, when you don't last 5 seconds after leaving spawn, you can't learn very much of the game.

  • And what did you choose in your original? Oh right, the channel selection. So was your original post wrong or was mine alright as it?

    c9de48131ec845ab6f15d0b1252b81c9.png


    Also, I am talking about S4DB's numbers in comparison to those bars, If they are accurate and can be trusted, why doesn't it reflect that? Channel selection has 5 categories, If it is true the max is 4000 people, that means that each category has 800 people max in it. The bar is a little over 75% full for netsphere 1, that should indicate that there is at least 600 people in that 1 channel. And how much did S4DB have for the entire english server? 445? That is weird... Why is that? The data in game doesn't show that at all... It is almost like trusting stats on S4DB might not be reliable. Weird, huh?

  • And what did you choose in your original? Oh right, the channel selection. So was your original post wrong or was mine alright as it?

    As mentoned already I took a screen of the German channel selection to show how few people are in there compared to the past.

    Also, I am talking about S4DB's numbers in comparison to those bars, If they are accurate and can be trusted, why doesn't it reflect that? Channel selection has 5 categories, If it is true the max is 4000 people, that means that each category has 800 people max in it. The bar is a little over 75% full for netsphere 1, that should indicate that there is at least 600 people in that 1 channel. And how much did S4DB have for the entire english server? 445? That is weird... Why is that? The data in game doesn't show that at all... It is almost like trusting stats on S4DB might not be reliable. Weird, huh?

    I never said they were perfect; abnormallys are normals since they don't get the data from aeria directly.

    And as mentioned already they are accurate enough and if s4 wasn't so death those 150 people wouldn't matter.

    You could also argue that the bar in S4 doesn't represent the number of people online correctly, because as you saw already. It showed that the same amount of peope were in EN and TR which cleary wasn't the case. But let's not go there. ¯\_(ヅ)_/¯

  • I don't like matches that are too easy or matches that are hopeless. If we let beginners into our games without trying to compensate in some way for their presence, we end up with a lot of that. And we both agree that we shouldn't kick them on sight. I'm not saying we should "dumb down" for their sake, but for ours.

    Beside, I don't believe that playing against the best players is going to help beginners become just as good. As it turns out, when you don't last 5 seconds after leaving spawn, you can't learn very much of the game.

    It's how I got good <.<

  • It's how I got good <.<

    Everybody faced a wall when starting S4 (except people who were there from the start I guess). But there are several degrees of that. When I started I was a slow kid playing on an old computer with low FPS and I got trashed a lot, but at least there were other beginners around and not everybody played full FP with enchants and chips. I don't think it's ever been as hard for a newcomer to get into the game as it is now. Beside, sta-2 is one of the hardest maps in the hardest mode, and people are now playing nothing but that, and with builds that are more aggressive and punishing than ever.

  • Everybody faced a wall when starting S4 (except people who were there from the start I guess). But there are several degrees of that. When I started I was a slow kid playing on an old computer with low FPS and I got trashed a lot, but at least there were other beginners around and not everybody played full FP with enchants and chips. I don't think it's ever been as hard for a newcomer to get into the game as it is now. Beside, sta-2 is one of the hardest maps in the hardest mode, and people are now playing nothing but that, and with builds that are more aggressive and punishing than ever.

    Which is why I think that Chaser and Circle-2 are a great option for beginners. It allows you to get better (and faster) at dodging, get familiar with jumps and the camera/ mouse angle.

  • Hey guys, a few points


    1) Unless something goes wrong, we will see things in 3 months. Hopefully, more than one patch actually \o/


    2) We will make a developer diary of sorts. This will include informing you of what's going on for some transparency and also to answer the questions you asked in the PM Letter form. This will be weekly or bi-weekly or something like this.

    We may even do like a facebook stream for answering questions, what do you guys say? (Of course we'd put the video somewhere)


    3) S4DB isn't completely reliable but more importantly, as I said, a metric by itself does not tell a story.

    Let me elaborate very shortly.

    CCU, concurrent users, is how many people are currently in game. This number usually increases in evenings and of course, it's important. It gives you a message about your popularity.


    However, this is not filtered by unique users. You may have less people during the day active AT THE SAME TIME but more people active DURING THE DAY. Similarly, you may have less people active DURING THE DAY, but more people overall IN A MONTH.


    So just looking at CCU doesn't give you the picture. It doesn't even give you the half. And just player numbers also don't give you the exact picture.


    That's not to dismiss CCU, it's an important indicator and regardless of "death" status, it's better to have more active players at a given time of course. But in this topic it's been used to judge how close the game to death and I want to clarify that it's not the way number-reading works.

    By the way, we've been banning bots and hackers, which also decreases numbers but positively.

  • Everybody faced a wall when starting S4 (except people who were there from the start I guess). But there are several degrees of that. When I started I was a slow kid playing on an old computer with low FPS and I got trashed a lot, but at least there were other beginners around and not everybody played full FP with enchants and chips. I don't think it's ever been as hard for a newcomer to get into the game as it is now. Beside, sta-2 is one of the hardest maps in the hardest mode, and people are now playing nothing but that, and with builds that are more aggressive and punishing than ever.

    Which is worse because the mechanics are forcing you to use a maximum of four different all meele weapons and nothing but that. There isn't variety, players have to be self-conscious about this terms, seriously. Even if you try opening a room, unless you make it meelee, you struggle to get players. Heck, i myself have been struggling to find players in a meelee room without restrictions. Imagine how hard it is to get UNLIMITED players.

  • Which is worse because the mechanics are forcing you to use a maximum of four different all meele weapons and nothing but that. There isn't variety, players have to be self-conscious about this terms, seriously. Even if you try opening a room, unless you make it meelee, you struggle to get players. Heck, i myself have been struggling to find players in a meelee room without restrictions. Imagine how hard it is to get UNLIMITED players.

    Unlimited players tend to stick together in their niches. There are not many true unlimited unless they are a heal crew waiting for some saps for a match. I am not condemning this as teamwork is a mechanic. Most of the players I am with are part of the No Heal/MS niche. I am ok with that mostly because I am pretty OP if I got a healer on my team following me around. I accept that some people prefer the Sword Only aspect, however there is so many compared to unlimited. I learned how to play SO but am usually kicked for using TB+Dagger+Scythe. I control the TB and only do the full combo against Counterswords since it's unblockable and has a stun time for a Dagger. I am not a great player.. but I can do it if I had to. Most SO players are purists and do not want to stray from the norms thus they are weak against anyone out of their thing. Of course this doesn't mean every one is like that. This seguays to the next thing: Cookie cutter skills;

    It's not hard to fight a bunch of people who have the same tactics as they see it or is taught it and considers that pro while people who memorizes tactics and learns from them obliterate them. I can't hear about it enough that people think I am using some infinite tracking on them or something because they run in a building and I shoot them as they leave a different area because I assessed the possible tactical value of each direction and concluded that they will most likley approach from that point. We should help teach players creativity and ingenuity, which produces unpredictability.

  • Unlimited players tend to stick together in their niches. There are not many true unlimited unless they are a heal crew waiting for some saps for a match. I am not condemning this as teamwork is a mechanic. Most of the players I am with are part of the No Heal/MS niche. I am ok with that mostly because I am pretty OP if I got a healer on my team following me around. I accept that some people prefer the Sword Only aspect, however there is so many compared to unlimited. I learned how to play SO but am usually kicked for using TB+Dagger+Scythe. I control the TB and only do the full combo against Counterswords since it's unblockable and has a stun time for a Dagger. I am not a great player.. but I can do it if I had to. Most SO players are purists and do not want to stray from the norms thus they are weak against anyone out of their thing. Of course this doesn't mean every one is like that. This seguays to the next thing: Cookie cutter skills;

    It's not hard to fight a bunch of people who have the same tactics as they see it or is taught it and considers that pro while people who memorizes tactics and learns from them obliterate them. I can't hear about it enough that people think I am using some infinite tracking on them or something because they run in a building and I shoot them as they leave a different area because I assessed the possible tactical value of each direction and concluded that they will most likley approach from that point. We should help teach players creativity and ingenuity, which produces unpredictability.

    Yeah, i totally agree.

    About the infinite tracking, take it as sort of a compliment, not everyone is so good at playing to make people think that you're hacking.

  • PLEASE I NEED HELP

    Daily gift doesnt work always,yesterday then, in a capsule i MUSTED get 100% booster, but i think it was bugged because it didnt give nothing, please help i want continue to play s4league fix this bug please. my nikname is ErMonnezzaro2

  • All nice and dandy but I have a few questions:

    1. It was talked about balance. But what kind of balance is the goal? Is it just tweaking weapons and their base stats, cooldowns and more? Is anything planed to close the gap between fully geared players and such who either don't have the money or refuse to spend it on stats? It could be way less menacing for newer players and those who haven't gotten any big items, yet. It feels unfair to land several hits and still being killed off with a single click from the enemy.

    2. This kinda overlaps with the balance question but: Do you plan to update or change some of the existing maps, With the ever growing pool of SP some of the old maps... well kinda all of the old maps... seem not to work as intended anymore. Don't get me wrong, to see someone doing insane looking jumps on a map to get to a certain point is awe inspiring, but as an example from Touchdown: Someone taking the ball from it's spawn point, running full speed ahead, being stunned, evading out of it, still doing a walljump and running into the goal.. sounds laughable. I love the fast paced action in S4 League. It is one reason why I keep coming back even with aaaaall the problems I could count, but that doesn't promote a fast gameplay, it promotes a brute force gameplay. Not only in Touchdown, but in other modes, too. So either the map needs tweaking, or ... the amount of SP (I didn't want to go there, I didn't want to beat the burned, hacked, minced, hanged, evaporaded dead horse, I deleted 6 times the text where I went into the "remove the buy to win" territory, but at some point... yeah)

    3. Is anything planed for helping new players get into the game better? It is hard, because so many could just make new accounts and still ruin their experience. From the eyes of a beginner: Starting the game, playing the tutorial, not knowing what's going on afterwards, seeing a bunch of rooms with really weird names and Tags after them, joining one per quick match or just on random, being demolished, blamed, flamed and/or kicked.

    We could go back to a mentor system. I see many people who want to help new players. What if, after the tutorial they get the chance to choose wanting to be teached some stuff by another player? Others who like the idea of being a mentor (and have requirements fullfilled like a certain level, spent time in the game, filled out and official form) could chose to do so and help them via talking to them, playing with them, doind training together, doing certain trials (like maps designed to train, where you need to perform jumps/dashes anything you can imagine to get to the goal. Could be fun for normal players, too).

    4. Can you disclose a list of major bugs you are currently working on, so people know that their major complaints are worked on? After all the years not knowing what is worked on, besides the obvious stuff, more transparency would be a welcome change. It could help both sides, players and devs alike could come to a conversation about certain things.


    That's it for now. Thank you for your patience.


    I can't hear about it enough that people think I am using some infinite tracking on them or something because they run in a building and I shoot them as they leave a different area because I assessed the possible tactical value of each direction and concluded that they will most likley approach from that point. We should help teach players creativity and ingenuity, which produces unpredictability

    That reminds me of my old days as gunner before all the ap with the nice skill detect. Most op advantage: Knowing where the enemy is.

  • I can confirm Scragger. I think per month is too often. Then again, maybe we'll see it will make more sense and do it. Or there will be, say, 3 months in a row where we make balance patches than 3 months with none.


    But I can promise follow-ups. Ie if we make a balance change and we get overwhelming feedback from community (like with railgun), there will be a change soon.

  • To be honest, S4 doesn't need a lot of balancing. Mostly only the newer weapons and the ones that the devs broke in their poor attempt to "fix" what wasn't broken *cough* rail gun *cough*.


    Just changing the weapons that most ppl complain about will probably do it.

    I do think some still are a bit stronger. We all spoke about Ssmash/assault being still beyond others rifles. And it could be applied for somes other weaps. Like we do see many room banning HMG, so it does means something about the weapons itself too.

  • I do think some still are a bit stronger. We all spoke about Ssmash/assault being still beyond others rifles. And it could be applied for somes other weaps. Like we do see many room banning HMG, so it does means something about the weapons itself too.

    Submachine Gun is the strongest rifle in close and mid range if you are playing good with it. While it makes more dmg it spreads. Seems balanced for me.

    Semi Rifle doesn't make so much damage but you can zoom in for a better longrange hitrate so also balanced in my opinion.

    Smash Rifle has a lower damage and is spreading so you have to put some effert in it to actually hit good. It can smash the oponent in close range so I guess also balanced.

    Assault Rifle has after the submachine gun the the most dmg if I'm not wrong. It is kinda accurate where you hit but worse than semi rifle. It shoots fast means you have to reload more often. It can be good in long and mid range. They could lower the dmg a little bit but overall also balanced i think.

    HMG makes a lot of damage but the moving speed and spreading bullets balance this out in my opinion. There are some ways you can let the HMG more shine but ohterwise there are ways to counter that so I honestly don't know why people are against it.

  • Assault Rifle has after the submachine gun the the most dmg if I'm not wrong. It is kinda accurate where you hit but worse than semi rifle.

    Assault has higher base damage than smg but smg has higher crit damage. Also assault has lower falloff damage which allows to be used for longer distances combined with its lower spread. Semi has good crit damage but its base damage is very poor which means you will have to reload a lot of you aren't landing crits.

  • People dislike HMG because it's a short range powerhouse. Add flying and you mitigate some of the speed as I know I fly faster with the HMG than I do walking. As for the complaint I hear, it is called a "noob-ish weapon requiring no aim or skill because of it's massive bullet count and all you have to do is point and win." A decent HMG user can melt away anyone even with a +1. HMG is easy to counter so long as your not crazy enough to run in front of it.


    People dislike Cannonade because it's a "noob-ish weapon for players who want to be a sniper and can't use rail". The cannonade is not a rail nor should be used like one. Most of my awesome kills comes from shooting people in places they thought I can't hit them from. If I encounter someone with good/better aim I can use my cannonade to ruin their shots. Using a cannonade like a rail limits your possibilities. Also it's fun to see players call you a hacker when a shield doesn't work against a cannonade.


    People dislike Breaker because it's a "noob-ish weapon with high damage and a stun alt attack." Firstly, that stun attack is rarely useful when the recovery time of the attack is the same as the recovery time of the stun. 9/10 times my victim can shrug off that stun before I am done reeling from the attack. Thus, breaker is one of the few stuns that can't be spammed. Breaker alone I have never seen accomplish much. People tend to combine it with scythe and that can get annoying (though if I see that coming I just fly out of range and HMG the guy dead as he watches me taunt him).



    TL;DR:

    Some balancing "issues" I observe are just complaints on how the weapon affects them. I don't like the railgun because how it affects me. Hard to take a railgun down when he can potentially shoot 10 times in a row either slowing me or knocking me around. My cannonade can only do so much against that x3.

  • I am totally fine if they just revert the HMG. The buffs aren't even that significant but the ppl started complaining just for the sake of being buffed. It was a balanced weapon back then and the buff wasn't even necessary.

  • I am totally fine if they just revert the HMG. The buffs aren't even that significant but the ppl started complaining just for the sake of being buffed. It was a balanced weapon back then and the buff wasn't even necessary.

    Reverting it would just make people want to take Shield with it more often, as slowing down the movespeed while shooting will give all rifles (AR in paticular), much more advantage against HMG. I could live with it being nerfed too, but it's just something to think about. Also those players are probably complaining because they don't know how to handle facing it. Or rather, they don't want to change their setup to deal with the problem.

    People dislike HMG because it's a short range powerhouse. Add flying and you mitigate some of the speed as I know I fly faster with the HMG than I do walking. As for the complaint I hear, it is called a "noob-ish weapon requiring no aim or skill because of it's massive bullet count and all you have to do is point and win." A decent HMG user can melt away anyone even with a +1. HMG is easy to counter so long as your not crazy enough to run in front of it.

    I don't completely see their point. It's one of the only guns in the game where you can aim directly at someone, and yet possibly not hit get any bullets to hit them. HMG to me feels more luck based, but that means it's actually harder to get hits with it because you don't know where the spread will shoot. Not to mention you'll have to be close or mid range to even land a decent amount of hits (at a chance still), while AR players can hit you with almost every bullet every time while you shoot with HMG.

    People dislike Breaker because it's a "noob-ish weapon with high damage and a stun alt attack." Firstly, that stun attack is rarely useful when the recovery time of the attack is the same as the recovery time of the stun. 9/10 times my victim can shrug off that stun before I am done reeling from the attack. Thus, breaker is one of the few stuns that can't be spammed. Breaker alone I have never seen accomplish much. People tend to combine it with scythe and that can get annoying (though if I see that coming I just fly out of range and HMG the guy dead as he watches me taunt him).

    I'm someone who commonly hates the BR, but for me it's not the stun that's the problem as I don't see players the stun often. My issue is just the damage of its left click (Ground Swing) attack. BR is mostly a problem in OS though, not in Unlimited. BR alone in OS can win matches, and with the aid of Dagger/Exo/Fists it's much more potent. It's nothing Unlimited only players have to worry about though. (However I've never seen someone try those Os setups in Unlimited).