What would/should a remake consist of?

  • Checking back in! How is everyone doing? :3

    S4L is a buggy, hacky mess. The biggest reason is just that it's really old. There's also 0 hype for it, and the story...while it exists...is certainly still all over the place. Many levels were removed. The mission structure could use work, as it doesn't incentivize variating playstyle. Most modes are just one-time affairs (especially Arcade). Pay models are meant to change and adapt over time; so perhaps there could be some consideration there too.

    At this point, a remake would be a godsend. The only question is... What should it consist of? What works, and what doesn't? If S4L-2 was just a blank page, how would you fill it?

  • What should it consist of?

    Station-2, cpd only apparently.


    I don't think S4 can be replicated and to be a success more than it already is. I would love to see S4L 2 but is it possible to make it feel any better? Sure they can buff the graphics but the movement is most likely to have noticeable differences and the game will have less content at the start. If it fails to impress the old players and is not something spectacular to attract new ones, it may actually kill the current game (assuming it still exist when it happens)

  • Pretty sure i'm not the only one around that making it have unreal engine graphics would force me to stop playing due to an outdated computer. But remaking S4 sounds like a great idea, as long as the original movement and "exploits" are there (RC, SC, WallBoost and whatsoever) i'm all for it, mostly if it fixes all of the crash issues and memory ones.

  • Pretty sure i'm not the only one around that making it have unreal engine graphics would force me to stop playing due to an outdated computer. But remaking S4 sounds like a great idea, as long as the original movement and "exploits" are there (RC, SC, WallBoost and whatsoever) i'm all for it, mostly if it fixes all of the crash issues and memory ones.

    Switching to high resource demanding engine will indeed have an effect on the community. Sure it has been 10 years but even if someone have switched to a better PC, the chances are they still won't be able to run the game with good fps unless they have just bought right now.

    A much lighter engine would probably do it especially considering the game doesn't have to look realistic but just good enough.

    Actually the Cry engine could be a good choice considering it is years old and still looks impressive.


    About the "exploits" they will be removed for sure or at least won't be added on purpose. However new exploits will probably be found with the time anyway. It all depends how well the game will be received by teh community. After all GunZ2 died cuz failed to please the old and new players.

  • I suppose I should state what I want, too :)

    Original tutorial. It was the best. Expanded to include the tricks (what Shanic calls exploits). Missions are more varied and specify more diverse playstyle, so much fewer X-only rooms.


    True eSports setup. By that, I mean setting the game up so that once you reach a certain rank, you can enter Official PvP matches set by the devs/company, and the company can try to broadcast tournaments for S4.

    Ranks remade like this: S0 to S4 instead of Rookie to S4 (it's still the same count of ranks). Also an S5 rank for anyone who wins an S4 Tournament. Non-broadcast official matches/tournaments start at S2; these free-for-all are grouped by rank and give exp/pen boosts when doing the contained matches. S5 is given to whichever team wins a tournament; so, over time, the number of players with it will increase; but this also means you need to actually work as a team.

    Each rank has its own way of best leveling. S0 you get same exp/pen whether you win or fail, but missions are best. S1 still relies on missions, but they're harder, and you get 150% for win 50% for lose per match. S2 onward you only get exp/pen for winning, and missions get even harder. S3 the missions are super hard but your only source of exp/pen, not including events and official matches. S4 only source of exp/pen is tournaments, specifically your team winning matches in tournaments, but events and stories give stuff too. This way S5 has to be earned 100%.

    Story mode is more important. The game has a proper story mode. Tutorial, entry into S4 world, then get special missions which leads to arcade, then the Seasons stuff happens.


    Areas are far larger, and some old areas with the same theme are merged together.


    VR compatible, but not required.

    --

    That lays the groundwork, though I do want the game to show the Netsphere proper. The game itself could be named Netsphere. You'd start in the old tutorial, but expanded, then enter hub. From hub, you can start the "story mode" which has you enter a bus into the Station, and the Station is shown to be a part of a larger city, Blade City or something. This way, even though you still use the hub menu to enter matches, the story shows you that yeah, the Netsphere is an actually huge place with proper locations.

    S0 Ch 1 Arrival (station, city)
    S0 Ch 2 Virus (Arcade, forest, expanded)
    S1 Ch 3 Control (DL+IE, Zerone and industrial areas)
    S1 Ch 4 Revelations (Wonder+TH, fantasy land and historic ruins)
    S2 Ch 5 Civil War (Cyborg, NEO, Union, three factions - Guard vs Powerz vs Union)
    S2 Ch 6 Fractured (glitch, shattered netsphere, onward)

    So there'd be plenty of PvE content, and completing an episode would give exp/pen the first time, and a chunk of pen after, to help players that haven't done it yet.

    But the game would still be primarily about PvP - that's where most of your exp is, and getting into S4 tournies is still the main goal. The best part is that the 6 chapters above fit through S2; meaning that players who don't want to go S4 can enter into the game and do the already done (though improved) story canon, but S3+ will still be occupied with the pure tournament focus until more story can be made. Dunno if an S5 chapter(s) should exist, though it would certainly be the Conclusion if it did.

  • I am not sure what is the problem just having all of that in the current version. In fact it will be way less work to make the new maps since the game already has a simplistic look.

  • I am not sure what is the problem just having all of that in the current version. In fact it will be way less work to make the new maps since the game already has a simplistic look.


    I'm pretty sure the total area size possible for each map is too small to properly merge the related maps.


    What I listed is still enough of an overhaul that it's too much work to do for an old engine, that it makes more financial sense to rebrand if you're going to do that much, which is what a remake is for - rebranding.


    Mainly though the issue is that the current game is so outdated that all of its vulnerabilities are too widely known. This is especially relevant when it comes to making the game official esport ready, as it's way too easy to cheat now. I'm talking purely from a game programming standpoint, not a third party anti-cheat standpoint.


    The problem isn't copy-pasting the simplicity of the maps. Slightly more detail would be nice, but the overall design/aesthetic is fine to remain. The problem is more that such a restructuring isn't really financially responsible for a game this old, and would only make sense for a new version. No one's going to invest in a game/engine this old; if the devs (or whoever owns the IP) wants proper development, they'd have to remake to incentivize sponsors.


    Plus, I'm sure Aeria would love a remake/rebrand opportunity to dip their toes into real esports (beyond just Iron Sight).

    In any case, this thread is more of a, if there was a remake, what would you want to see. Sure, having some of my points in the current game would be nice, but the points are still fully relevant for a remake. :3

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Rezilia ().

  • I'm pretty sure the total area size possible for each map is too small to properly merge the related maps.

    The Scenario map is actually pretty huge but I guess the engine has some limitations.


    Regarding esport, I don't think S4 is competitive material due to giving you too much freedom of what you can equip. The game didn't catch on as such even when it had fairly big playerbase.

  • I don't think S4 is competitive material due to giving you too much freedom of what you can equip.


    On the contrary, that's what makes many esports so popular. Smash Bros has an extremely versatile set, and S4L has a limited number of weps that can be equipped at once, making things fairer.

    I do think some weapons should be altered. As it stands, some weapons are never used because they have too many downsides while others are too OP.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Rezilia ().


  • On the contrary, that's what makes many esports so popular. Smash Bros has an extremely versatile set, and S4L has a limited number of weps that can be equipped at once, making things fairer.

    I do think some weapons should be altered. As it stands, some weapons are never used because they have too many downsides while others are too OP.

    The sharpshooter is fine, it is the rail that is too strong now.

  • A remake would be interesting I guess, but oddly enough I would of prefer the opposite. S4 from 5 years+ ago minus the hacks and what not. In my OPINIOMN the latter changes of the game killed it for me till I eventually stopped playing altogether.


    I know the topic at hand is a remake but I really enjoyed old S4 the most.

  • I suppose it would be great for them to create less-skimpy outfits, too. I don't mind skimpy outfits for those who want them, but they're all we've gotten since early S4. Early S4 had a lot of creative designs, the checkered cyber-urban looks, the pretty dresses, and so on. I'd like more stuff like that - clothing that doesn't rely on skin exposure to look good.

  • I suppose it would be great for them to create less-skimpy outfits, too. I don't mind skimpy outfits for those who want them, but they're all we've gotten since early S4. Early S4 had a lot of creative designs, the checkered cyber-urban looks, the pretty dresses, and so on. I'd like more stuff like that - clothing that doesn't rely on skin exposure to look good.

    This makes me wonder how the new sets from now on are going to look like when we get any.

  • Too bad the original artist is gone now (still sad about that). Hopefully the current artists can scrounge up some unique ideas.

    In fact, that's another thing the remake would need - a concept artist with unique designs like S4L was based on.

  • Give booster caps for reaching lvl 81 after lvl 80 and repeat the process. Kinda sad once u hit lvl 80, s4 rank, u no longer get lvl rewards.

    I honestly don't know why we have levels at all. Just leagues (ranks, S0 to S4/5) is all the "level up" we need. Using sublevels is just redundant and makes people erroneously feel like they need to keep leveling.

  • Endless level system with even levels would be nice with some big rewards after certain number of levels.

    Doesn't that go against the point of the game, though? And the point of levels? In other games, levels gauge power - when you level up, you get stats or stat points, or are able to equip better gear / use better skills. But in S4L the only reason for levels is to 20/20 each rank/league, and it's the ranks/leagues that determine power. The only point of levels in this game is to get rewards (afaik) and act as an exp bar for rank. Endless levels would just be a distraction,

  • Doesn't that go against the point of the game, though? And the point of levels? In other games, levels gauge power - when you level up, you get stats or stat points, or are able to equip better gear / use better skills. But in S4L the only reason for levels is to 20/20 each rank/league, and it's the ranks/leagues that determine power. The only point of levels in this game is to get rewards (afaik) and act as an exp bar for rank. Endless levels would just be a distraction,

    No level cap = more rewards

    Also there can be still unique level icons for levels ahead made in advance before anyone have reached those yet.


    Even the old level system is kind of "endless" considering no one has reached the old S4 rank yet and will probably take a lot more years just to get there. This is the highest so far:

  • Too bad the original artist is gone now (still sad about that). Hopefully the current artists can scrounge up some unique ideas.

    In fact, that's another thing the remake would need - a concept artist with unique designs like S4L was based on.

    But that doesnt matter, the original artist wasnt making most of the sets we have now.

  • Easy.


    Keep the core mechanics.

    Updated graphics new maps ect, improved engine, fixed bugs

    Equipment and Skins are cosmetic only. On that note more customization for appearances.

    Matchmaking System



    New maps and modes what one would generally expect with a new game.

  • Seeing the current trends, the only way it would work is if the remake is a battle royale game.



    But more seriously, let's entertain the idea of a remake for a moment. in the current environment you can't release a game where you have to two-tap forward to sprint, that's just not a thing anymore (so that would have to go somehow I think). The chain wall jump mechanics probably also deserve an update, we all got used to double wall jumping so we don't realise that it's hella janky.


    Aside from that, if I were tasked to remake S4, I would make it a bit easier to do cool sh*t. Very few people are willing to learn frame perfect or pixel perfect tricks anymore, you wouldn't believe what passes for "advanced tech" in modern shooters.


    Like, I would increase the window to realise certain techs such as instant wall jump, reload cancel and such, and add some pixels where you can stand to make certain jumps more doable.

  • Keep the graphics but improve resolution.

    Map editor.

    Clan system improved.

    Clan base building.

    Clan missions PvE (larger arcade mode)

    Campaigns/Missions for arcade. (Maybe release a new one per theme/expansion)

    Better optimazation.

    Active contests for weapon/set/pet skins.

    Custom mode where you can reset certain weapons before X balance changes. (You dont get pen nor xp on this mode)

    Active balance changes. (At least one per month)

    Add a beta server wich allows players to test updates. (Maybe give priority or privilege to those who support the game.)

    Active tornaments, events and etcetera.

  • I mean, if we're remaking S4, the thing that needs to be updated the most is the networking model. Authoritative game design and networking is a must if we want to have a secure, (mostly)hack-free, fair, gameplay.

  • But more seriously, let's entertain the idea of a remake for a moment. in the current environment you can't release a game where you have to two-tap forward to sprint, that's just not a thing anymore (so that would have to go somehow I think).


    This is actually just plain wrong. Action Hack n Slash games are best done with double-tap. Maybe not FPSs, but definitely HnS. In fact, the most recent HnS "MMO" is called KurtzPel and it uses double-tap. In fact, since the game has many different movement-based actions, it even incorporates double-tap to activate some. For example, for Bow you right-click to aim and still can walk just slowly, then you double tap a direction to "roll" and enter a second sniping stance where you can't walk but you charge over time a much stronger snipe attack. So that game, which is in the same genre as this one, uses double-tap direction in two ways. (Although in that game, you run by default not walk and sprint/dash is much faster than the "run" we get in S4L. Honestly if we got larger maps in a remake, that speed increase would be a godsend.)

    Another reason to use double-tap sprint, is that controllers only have few buttons compared to KBM. Requiring a separate button for Sprint if the player wants to use dpad for movement is a bit...frustrating, just like on Keyboard. I'm not saying allowing a separate button for Sprint as an option shouldn't be a thing, but the only players that don't have to "worry" as much for run/sprinting are analog stick users (and in some cases that's worse because that means moving too far in a direction will auto sprint, so actually it should be an option in settings).


    I'm going to try to come up with a story remake soon. PM me if you have suggestions! ^-^

  • Action Hack n Slash games are best done with double-tap

    On keyboard though? I mean, I don't play many hack'n slash so I'll have to believe you. I mostly play shooters and a few platformers so I might have missed that it still existed.
    I just know that having to double tap to dodge in Nier Automata tilted me so hard I had to switch to controller to have a decent control scheme (for my defense, my first playthrough was hard mode). So I figured it might be the same for new players and such.

    Clan missions PvE (larger arcade mode)

    I am doubtful. I mean, every time a dev has tried to combine PvE and S4 league what ensued was a disaster. Enemies automatically locking on to you or to your previous position, walking forward and queuing an attack when you are in range for the melee ones. On top of that, nothing of the platforming aspect of the game has carried over so far. I guess they didn't want to give us any walls to WS from.

    Though I guess if you can make it work, then it might not be a bad idea.

    Speaking of which, I'm just going to throw it out there.
    No. More. WS.


  • Okay, maybe this is just because I've played way too many Hack n Slash and platforming games, but my general philosophy is that you should use as few buttons as possible in a control scheme, and do more with them.

    For example:

    The more buttons you use, the more your hands have to stretch or move. That means slower reaction time, and that's bad in fast-paced games, especially ones where you can select multiple weapons, use combo moves, and maybe have extra items or skills to select. Eventually you end up with a control scheme with like all the buttons on a controller including non-direction dpad or like the entire left half of your keyboard, and you basically have a Kingdom Hearts -like controls trainwreck. Have you ever felt like combat was fast in KH? Well it should be but it's not because it uses too many buttons.


    ---


    As for PvE and S4L, I actually like how the AI is in Arcade. It feels like you're fighting actual players. Actual players automatically lock onto you or your previous position because they look quickly, AIs can just do this auto and it's the same difference.


    What's WS?