What happened to s4 (Dhoomie video)

  • And the difference between you and me is ...

    https://imgur.com/a/GFP6hOY

    Everything seen here is bought with money.

  • The game isn't pay2win if you've played for long enough. Having spent 2 euros in total, I lose about 7 % or combined DPS and survivability compared to people who have absurd enchants. That's insignificant compared to how much other factors determines the outcome of a game (I also have four Lv5 chip sets).


    The issue is, getting to that point as a new player without spending money isn't realistic. They don't know what's the best way to manage their inventory (doesn't help that there's no IG guide and it's unintuitive as hell), and probably won't be playing long enough anyway if they're getting absolutely destroyed by people with both more skill and better gear than them.


    I think the new chips are what really made the situation escalate. In order to use them, you need a permanent outfit, you can't just use whatever you get from free capsules until it expires. Not to mention, they cost a fair amount of pen, even to get to lv4, and the way you acquire, upgrade and equip them is obscure.


    The system needs to change to something that is intuitive for new players and allows for the level up system to provide them with good temporary gear. And at the same time, it must still provide and incentive for players to spend money and/or time into the game (and no, S4 league doesn't have the player base to just sell skins).

  • The crafting system could fix a lot of issues with p2w if they don't really want to touch the PEN/Random Shop, as long as the crafting pieces and so on are balanced in a reasonable way

  • The crafting system could fix a lot of issues with p2w if they don't really want to touch the PEN/Random Shop, as long as the crafting pieces and so on are balanced in a reasonable way

    You have better chance getting a perm from I-caps.

    Even if the crafting gets changed, the new players will still have to suffer before getting anything from it.

  • You have better chance getting a perm from I-caps.

    Even if the crafting gets changed, the new players will still have to suffer before getting anything from it.

    Chances still chances. At least you know exactly what you have to spend on a crafting system, I caps have nothing to do if the crafting system gets reworked correctly

  • And the difference between you and me is ...

    https://imgur.com/a/GFP6hOY

    Everything seen here is bought with money.

    Good for you, you have a ton of stuff that you don't use that you paid real money for, And that is relevant to anything I said how?


    I have no disagreement over the chips, they need to gain some level of nerf or be easier to access. Honestly, I would prefer nerf though.


    ---


    If we are talking straight balance, re-adding the secondary prize to the capsules would go a long way, for instance, what it once was (a 1 day, 7 day, 30day +1 rental with a chance to get a +1 permanent) or even giving the chance to gain a +3 or +7 version of the prize either timed or permanent would go miles to assist with the power balance. A +3 or +7 might not seem like much, but it is miles better than a rental you can't really enchant for anything.

  • So the next patch has been delayed? :c

    Well, we didn't have a set date but yes. More on this on this month's PM Letter.

    So people that have less fun in the game because of the stats should just leave right? o.o

    Oh so you did not consider us all at community in the first place. Sword only, Guns only, Unlimited, all different maps and modes, S5, weaponrestrictions (+s4db) is a segregated community overall. It is kinda easy. Whoever doesn’t want to play in such room doesn’t join it and end of the story. Don’t come here with „take some fun out of the game“ while people have clearly more fun in such rooms then in „normal“ rooms.

    Obviously not every single person in the community likes/dislikes the same things. I didn't imply anything in that regard either. And community segregation is something I'm well aware and is exactly why it's something I'd like to avoid further (if/when possible.)

    Because segregation is not a toggle. It's not something that either exists or not. Every community has segregation. The question is how deep, how complex, how strict it is. We already have a major TD/ST2 and MO bias which makes it hard for others to find rooms. Adding another layer on top of it?

    It's definitely something we need to consider seriously.

    If you want to make it fair how about you just send everyone every item in fp stats + max enchants + unique skills + full lvl 5 esper chips 10 times perm?...

    I mean you can't give us the option for a no-stats room whyever. So everyone can have the fun you are talking about. Would make the most people happy right?

    This doesn't make things fair though, does it? FP Set X is same as FP Set Y, how does getting each and every set 10 times make it more fair?

    Plus, you'd be taking out the fun of progress and reward. That's also an important part of the fun, especially for some players.


    But one potential (and personally, my favorite) solution I mentioned is already in the same direction: Making items more accessible, meaning you can get FPs easier, enchant easier etc.


    For example we could change the pace leveling, what you get at each level, FP sets or unique boosters you get, add PEN-purchasable boxes in game or in events that can reward FP items, enchant items etc We could improve the crafting system, change the enchant "fail" ratios... I don't know at this point if this is the path we'll take but I think it's one that will make the game progression better.

    The best option would be to remove all "normal" weapon stats, introduce the option to play PEN or AP mode (so basically if you are naked you still will have the same stats) and the only stats that stay are the enchants. So it will still kinda be p2w but not AS bad. Also there are still EsperChip stats, EsperChip skills, etc.

    This is an interesting idea. I don't know how technically possible the "PEN or AP mode" is but instead of just "no stat" option, maybe we could try an option in game for none/pen/ap/fp ?

    We could test this on a mod to see how it feels.

  • Also please please give us a way to like fuse 3 lvl 5 esper chips to make one that can be removed from equip and applied to another, everytime one gets a new set we have to go back into "lets gamble our way until we may or may not get that lvl 5 chips or run out of pen" welp

  • I like hellas idea way better, make esper chips independent of sets, the problem is when new sets come i want to use shinies on them and i dont have pen to get lvl 5 shiny everytime i get a new set

  • these chips were a bad idea since the person who came up with that on gameon HQ spoke about it so to be honest, i feel like removing the levels and making those chips have one single level would be less painful for everyone, but i'm pretty sure that would be a h3ll road for the actual devs

  • these chips were a bad idea since the person who came up with that on gameon HQ spoke about it

    Eh? Where was that?


    But yes, the chips were probably one of the worst things put in this game. They are just wrong on so many levels. The idea of having some special moves in the game was neat but good god the execution was terrible. I really won't miss them if they are just removed from the game and give some compensation for those who have them.

  • they appear completely unnatural and feel like the old times when hackers changed into godmode, stunned everyone or 1hit you. It removes the whole purpose of outplaying your opponent and learning how to do so^

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Astoria ().

  • they appear completely unnatural and feel like the old times when hackers changed into godmode, stunned everyone or 1hit you. It removes the whole purpose of outplaying your opponent and learning how to do so^

    Yeah. I even see some ppl thinking that the chip skills are some kind of hacks.

  • I'm a firm believer that nothing can be attain for free. People need to work there way up and get it.


    Karasakal A idea that make FP stats accessible. Add them in the Enchanting system. (Another enchanting option) How many levels to enchant full FP stats say 4-5 lvl. Timid item can be enchant up more easy and pay for 500 pen for each Lvl . Player enchanting on perm items is harder and pen pay is like esperchip amount/a bit more. Weapon won't break, but has chance to reset by 1 or all. Fumbi shop will drop FP lvl randomly. Pet with zero stats can be enchant and more cheaper.


    A big flaw in S4 is the pen system. Back in the days where shiney chip doesn't exist. Stacking pen from match alone is still tough thing to do and the system today still bad please work on it. A suggestion idea, give players a mini shiney buff for a brief time. Like with full lvl 5 have 30k pen limit. A mini buff can be 9000 pen limit. It won't be much. It might be something for players can work on.

  • I'm a firm believer that nothing can be attain for free. People need to work there way up and get it.


    Karasakal A idea that make FP stats accessible. Add them in the Enchanting system. (Another enchanting option) How many levels to enchant full FP stats say 4-5 lvl. Timid item can be enchant up more easy and pay for 500 pen for each Lvl . Player enchanting on perm items is harder and pen pay is like esperchip amount/a bit more. Weapon won't break, but has chance to reset by 1 or all. Fumbi shop will drop FP lvl randomly. Pet with zero stats can be enchant and more cheaper.


    A big flaw in S4 is the pen system. Back in the days where shiney chip doesn't exist. Stacking pen from match alone is still tough thing to do and the system today still bad please work on it. A suggestion idea, give players a mini shiney buff for a brief time. Like with full lvl 5 have 30k pen limit. A mini buff can be 9000 pen limit. It won't be much. It might be something for players can work on.

    selfish thinking like this is what destroyed the game in the 1st place^

  • They could at least had gone for the "Kill to fill the special bar" and then allow you to use the skill once you fill it up.

    That remind me a game called zOMG. They have Rings as weapon that can be Melee, Range/shooting, buff, debuff. A bar that can charge up to #rank. Each rank release different kind of attack animation. Charging the bar is just doing some damage instead of killing.


    If they had gone with a fill a bar system. I would go for the system of that game I mention.


    Astoria Sorry my way of selfish thinking is too realistic :).

  • selfish thinking like this is what destroyed the game in the 1st place^

    So, in your world view, you think you getting something for free is good, but when someone got the same thing, but had to work for it thinks that everyone should have to put in some work for it as well, that is what is selfish. Yeah, OK, at least we know where you stand.

  • i was blocked here on the forums, everyone knows who i am. I used to make videos on youtube and i used to play casuals under the name of -_DarkInstinct_-, .[Dignity]. , -Cye.Kaizen, ET-Ciso (event creators alt account) and my last name Nezure. due to the hate on the past i had to take some of my own videos down. Which were related to Jumps , learning how to Reload Cancel, in every most of the maps back on 2010. I have played this since 2008 and quited 2012 i even played on the Korean S4.

    i dont want to be here talking about myself, i wanna talk about my game and others game.

    The issues it has, since votekick system was introduced everyone was excited, but i knew there was a possibility of someone would abuse it.. i even made a petition on that time too not bring this system because there would be abuse..It waa good against hackers but it wouldnt solve the problem.. Since the votekick had been out i had seen from everything, rookies not having a chance to learn how to play this game..even with pros in the same game.

    Back on this days everyone had to play with afks, rookies and ragers.. it wasnt an issue, in the sense that you couldnt carry, the issue is when they introduce it and had after became obsolete because people would start to kick rookies to equilibrate the teams in other words calling a friend to 'screw' the other team to make his own team even more stronger not giving an chance to others learn or play.

    Other issue was the introduction of the chips with aditional stats to everything from clothes to weapons and the buff system that shouldnt even made to this game at the first place.

    If i could help mold this game with my vision as it was off the early days.. this game would be perfect to everyone and the company.. It would even earn reputation and trust. All i wanted was someone to listen to me and give S4 a bright path. Im old guy right now.. still i am here.. havent gave up on this because i still look aford to return entirely. But i wont until the buff system.. the chips with additional stats to the clothes.. the votekick system, and the damage balance between ap and pen are fixed.But i know this wont happen not until the greed for money is changed, not until the young imatures product managers see with theres eyes what potencial this game has.

    When i see a debate or a talking 'we will change things, we will work on those or stuff like that it's a fact there isnt any plans on' i love S4 League as much my dear friend Silver does.. I mention his name has you wonder.. we were a rival of young guys playing this game back then and turn out a friendship.We both shared the same opinion in this game, it deserves a lot but a lot more then the way its been threat.

    It is sad to see the author of this game fade away, it is sad.

  • Yes, the vote kick is a huge problem. Every time I see a rookie in my match it is pretty much a guaranteed to be kicked while blatant aimbotters gets a pass. So what is really the point of the vote kick anymore?

  • Here's how I would Balance the game


    Clothing Stats


    The Old fumbi handled balancing really really well. You only ever had maximum stats in a particular area. This would be a great idea at the start.


    Pants only gives you defense against Melee, Guns, Throwing/Special/Install

    Shirt only gives you attack in Guns, Melee, Throwing/Special/Install

    Hair only gives you defense Guns, Melee, Throwing/Special/Install


    Now here's where it get complicated. Lets say you have a set with a +10 defense, you are able to distribute that +10 defense across all stat perimeters.

    Throw all 10 defense in melee if you want to. Throw +5 in guns and +5 in melee. Or throw 3 in each aspect of defense. You can have your character be super OP against melee or be weaker but balanced. The level of balance this adds is just great. Players might even buy the same clothing with different colors because there's more configuration options.


    With this you would only ever be OP in a particular area. An ap tank running your way? Hit him with a melee and he'l fizzle like any normal player if all his defenses are in guns. If he has all his stats spread out across the board then his defenses wont be so strong.


    We will also increase the items' stats given from the pen shop. A pen weapon could be a +9 with a single forcepack buff. For instance a pen player could buy a SMG and choose if they want the AP bonus speed, hp or sp. Pen Items will now be permanent if payed the right price. 50k pen.


    Pen shop will not sell colored item.

    I would increase the pen rate to triple. Yes. Triple!


    I would remove the fumbi shop (YES) Remove the fumbi shop. I would then allow players to buy coupons with PEN and get it from arcade and other single player modes. We would then use these coupons as a currency that has access to the AP shop. This way a player with enough time can buy an ap piece of clothing at the color which they choose at the stat they choose.


    Esper chips will be reconfigured

    Green Chips increases stay the same

    Red Chips increase attack but reduce defense proportionally

    Blue Chips increase hp/defense but reduce attack/speed proportionally

    Yellow Chips stay the same

    Orange Chips stay the same


    If you have no skills equipped to your character, your chip skill becomes available. So you wont be able to use fly and the red beam with the same character. As a bonus the skills will be more balanced since the interval you can use it will decrease.


    Now both clothing and Chips are strategic. You have to put some thought into it.

    Enchants


    For enchants we would need to just scrap it. Or better yet we could have those enchants have adverse effect?

    Want to have +8 defense piercing on your weapons? Fine. Then your clothing/Hair defense are reduced. So your defense is reduced by -8

    Want to have TD atk plus +8? then your TD defense is reduced by +8. Also, your defense doesn't have a base cap. Its gonna continuing to go down.
    Want to have higher critical damage? Then your accuracy goes down.


    Any enchant that affects damage must adversely affect the player.


    If you want to rip through players with your OP enchants then its only fair we can do the same to you.


    Remove book bonuses.


    Make it so players can craft for pack weapons by using their Pen permanent weapon that they acquired as a base. If you have a SMG with time you can craft a forcepack smg with the color of your choosing.


    Crafting capsules are now available by using coupons as currency.


    Re balance the weapons Based on feedback (no one wants to play against unfair weapons. Look at the PS. it is balanced extremely well. Its as if someone who played/coded fighting games made it.


    Heavy attack = less mobility when attacking, slower attacking speed, more damage and hits players further

    Light attack = more mobility when attacking, fast attacking speed, less damage and interrupts players actions

    Stun = slow start up, good range and high reward for hitting a player (player has the option to escape if hit too)

    Dash = fast start up, Great range, high reward for hitting, high risk if missed


    All attacks serve a purpose in the PS's repertoire. The same goes for CS and Bat. People love PS for a reason and are obsessed with it.


    Dagger is a left click and shank fest that throws high risk/reward out the window. A potentially one hit(three hit) kill that you can simply walk away from if you miss. No the animation should play out.


    Anyway the weapons should be balanced based on the Plasma sword. Each attack should have a purpose.

  • They could at least had gone for the "Kill to fill the special bar" and then allow you to use the skill once you fill it up.

    That's a win-more mechanic. You give a greater advantage to the team that's already winning. Is that really something that you want in the game?

  • Esper chips problem is probably the easier thing to "fix": put esper chip extractor in pen shop for 1 pen, decrease upgrade fail % and/or increase upgrade success lv4->lv5 a lot, remove all espers skills. Easy tasks even for low-skilled programmers....if they really want to do it oc.

  • So, in your world view, you think you getting something for free is good, but when someone got the same thing, but had to work for it thinks that everyone should have to put in some work for it as well, that is what is selfish. Yeah, OK, at least we know where you stand.

    Well in a free2play game it should be possible for new people to have at least similar stats to the other players. If they pay for skins and something like that, it's on them but why would anyone new to the game pay money for it, if it's not even fun for them? (talking about differences in item stats)

  • This is all well and nice but it too complicated and would be too hard to implement, and it doesn't really solve anything I'm talking about the part of trading advantages with disadvantages, in the end those with total better stats would be in a total.. better. 14 def on pants is still 14 even if its 8 melee, 6 guns. vs 5 that pen pants give. even if you divide them the total is still the total. and with SO being so dominant people would just max melee most of the times anyways.


    Changes like that normally come slowly with feedback after a current system is already balanced and tested. its no good to go from a unbalanced system to a completely new one that will have to be re balanced anyways. this game needs a lot of work to go from its current broken state to a friendly one. We want new people to feel comfy coming into the game, and that should come first.

  • Esper chips problem is probably the easier thing to "fix": put esper chip extractor in pen shop for 1 pen, decrease upgrade fail % and/or increase upgrade success lv4->lv5 a lot, remove all espers skills. Easy tasks even for low-skilled programmers....if they really want to do it oc.

    Why not instead of removing them just make them available at lvl 3. the green chip skil for example is a ton of fun to use. honestly the only f skill i dislike is the red one. but getting to lvl 3 chips shouldn't be hard for a LOT of people.

  • That's a win-more mechanic. You give a greater advantage to the team that's already winning. Is that really something that you want in the game?

    Better than using it right at the start of a match and whenever you feel like once the CD is over

  • Pants only gives you defense against Melee, Guns, Throwing/Special/Install

    Shirt only gives you attack in Guns, Melee, Throwing/Special/Install

    Hair only gives you defense Guns, Melee, Throwing/Special/Install


    Now here's where it get complicated. Lets say you have a set with a +10 defense, you are able to distribute that +10 defense across all stat perimeters.

    Throw all 10 defense in melee if you want to. Throw +5 in guns and +5 in melee. Or throw 3 in each aspect of defense. You can have your character be super OP against melee or be weaker but balanced. The level of balance this adds is just great. Players might even buy the same clothing with different colors because there's more configuration options.

    Even though I do agree that was a better system, you won't be able to revert back to it at this point without upsetting some people. Even though people are currently upset, you have to note which people. The people funding this games existence will always come before the people that simply support it by playing, the game is not free to run and nor is the company behind it.

    With this you would only ever be OP in a particular area. An ap tank running your way? Hit him with a melee and he'l fizzle like any normal player if all his defenses are in guns. If he has all his stats spread out across the board then his defenses wont be so strong.

    That system remains that SO would still be broken at that point.


    Pen shop will not sell colored item.

    I have seen games do that, people would still complain.

    I would remove the shop (YES) Remove the shop. I would then allow players to buy coupons with PEN and get it from arcade and other single player

    No.

    If you have no skills equipped to your character, your chip skill becomes available. So you wont be able to use fly and the red beam with the same character. As a bonus the skills will be more balanced since the interval you can use it will decrease.

    I suppose that could be one way to balance f-skills...

    For enchants we would need to just scrap it. Or better yet we could have those enchants have adverse effect?

    Want to have +8 defense piercing on your weapons? Fine. Then your clothing/Hair defense are reduced. So your defense is reduced by -8

    Want to have TD atk plus +8? then your TD defense is reduced by +8. Also, your defense doesn't have a base cap. Its gonna continuing to go down.
    Want to have higher critical damage? Then your accuracy goes down.


    Any enchant that affects damage must adversely affect the player.

    Wonderful idea, but once again, you are setting sights on things almost everyone has. Making it easier to gain max enchants would be just as good without punishing people who have already been through that system.

    Make it so players can craft for pack weapons by using their Pen permanent weapon that they acquired as a base. If you have a SMG with time you can craft a forcepack smg with the color of your choosing.

    Would probably be cheaper I-capping honestly. You should remember price points on that sort of system would depend on current systems.


    Re balance the weapons Based on feedback (no one wants to play against unfair weapons. Look at the PS. it is balanced extremely well. Its as if someone who played/coded fighting games made it.

    Pretty sure it too was either nerfed or buffed at some point...

    Well in a free2play game it should be possible for new people to have at least similar stats to the other players. If they pay for skins and something like that, it's on them but why would anyone new to the game pay money for it, if it's not even fun for them? (talking about differences in item stats)

    They already do. I-caps, P-caps, Fumbi, level-up, events, login rotation, crafting, arcade, etc... Things do exist to get those stats for free.

  • Well then leave if you only want changes but not being part from them just blaming.

    most already did thats the problem the fact that i still cannot play cause of the bo2 error after two months shows part of what he is saying is true i aint gonna blame aeria for everything he said but their main focus on money and less about the game has being shown through out their time i dont see any way this game could become what it used to

  • most already did thats the problem the fact that i still cannot play cause of the bo2 error after two months shows part of what he is saying is true i aint gonna blame aeria for everything he said but their main focus on money and less about the game has being shown through out their time i dont see any way this game could become what it used to

    I agree that Aeria seems that they're obsessed with money.

  • All I remember was the game going downhill after migration happened as most people's accounts/chars were not properly migrated. You had to wait for months for them to handle that problem over time(or sweeped it under the rug as I and others in aeria chat said). There was also issues with the servers with handling Peer-to-Peer so American players had around 250(r)(t) to everyone(for a month or 2).


    So the playerbase went from a healthy 10k or so down to 3k. Then there was all the bad events that popped out after just migrating here. This was right after...a coin event I think where you were able to earn a crow countersword/AP pets if you farmed for it. I had no pen and AP weapons which was very limiting. As you are able to move faster and do more dodges/wall jumps/fadesteps.


    It wasn't until a very abusive event popped up where around Christmas in 2013, people were able to farm for AP weapons/costume sets and also a lot of pen. I earned around 7m pen,lots of AP costume sets and AP weapons from that event which allowed me to buy a lot of I-caps for weapons I needed. It also let me won an auction here in forum for some Gun/Shirt Esper chips(which was very beneficial for airhug since that was all I did). So to me the gap between AP and Pen is way too big. Especially with esper chips which gives even more additional stats. Oh and that event also gave out FP boosters or increases the chance of getting a AP weapon/costume. So I had a lot of 4x and I even got 1 100% booster iirc.


    I didn't mind stuff like Reload Speed as that was level1 and there was very old players(or people like me who won them through forum events) who had them. But those extra stats that now come from esper chips are very dumb. In past threads people talked about how the gap between AP/Pen was becoming larger and it was getting more ridiculous. I think that AP vs AP is fine. But if you're a pen player who has no AP weapons/costumes whatsoever, this game is very pay to win.


    Then there was many broken weapons that were added to the game. Boots when you can boots rush to the ball right away so you can always ramp first. Bombs which have too much quantity,control and damage though this is more... better to handle.As long as 3 players don't have bombs. Oh and when you can suicide bomb enemies which was in game for a couple of months or a year iirc. Mk2 heal gun which lets you heal camp up the ramp. Rocket launcher which was 1 shotting. Buffed railgun which makes it... broken and despite the many threads here asking for a rebalance again or an implementation of the older one it is still ingame. Sharpshooter with esper chip(before they removed that) but then they have limited ammo which is questionable. Since railgun has unlimited.


    Only weapon that got nerfed for guns now that I think about it is... airgun. Which they made it so you can't airhug it. To me that wasn't very brokenas you can just dodge +rush to recover if good enough. I did that a lot to score TDs when rushing as airgun is always nears stairs. It's not as broken as other weapons.


    I started playing this game again(2018) when I came back to america for a bit as the Philippines is banned... So I started to load up the game again. And there was a lag issue which made me not play for 2 months. I waited to see if Aeria could fix it but they didn't. I was expecting too much. So I decided to try a VPN I had lying around(set to Germany) and it worked. For some reason. Was able to play for a month or so before I went back to the Philippines. And if I get banned for this, it's fine. I'm in the Philippines again and I won't be able to play for a couple of years(college) due to country IP ban. I'm already satisfied with the time spent in this game. Video of show casing the lag I experienced below:



    A hacker was kicking people from rooms while copying my name one time and in lobby people were blaming me for it. So me and some friends were talking and laughing about how broken this game is. And how hackers made it bend the knee.




    All I can say is that I had fun with the game. Met and talked to lots of people in game.Had a lot of airhug friends when I was just starting to learn it. I paid 0$ due to that event I mentioned before and I thank myself for farming that much. As Aeria was being very stingy towards free players honestly. And over the years I lost faith in Aeria. And because of this game I can't really have much fun with other shooters out there(highest compliment I can give it) and this game had a lot of potential. Too bad it was botched.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by nintenn ().