What happened to s4 (Dhoomie video)

  • parameters is all we need, the gameplay could be easily copied and pasted, i'm pretty sure a game like this with a nice face wash would grab some attention with the correct advertising


    But i would TOTALLY avoid calling it S4 League or anything related to it

  • parameters is all we need, the gameplay could be easily copied and pasted, i'm pretty sure a game like this with a nice face wash would grab some attention with the correct advertising


    But i would TOTALLY avoid calling it S4 League or anything related to it

    you can copy models sounds and animations but the gameplay remains on the old game engine. Rebuilding it on new engine may solve some exploits (some cancelings) as well and creating new ones but it just won't feel like the same game.

  • Personally i feel like rebuilding the game on a new engine sounds good on paper, but it probably would feel so far off from the original one that it just wouldn't be fun to play. That's of course speculation but each engine has it's own quirks and i feel like the feeling can't be replicated. That may just be me though, of course a new engine would fix some issues but nonetheless i feel like it wouldn't be good for the game. It would most likely feel like a cheap clone. Just speculation though

  • a V8 is gonna run the same as long as properties of both cars are equal

    You just shot yourself in your foot with that example. The matter here is that you want the two cars to run the same while they have a different engine. The parameters just don't magically translate into the same output from one engine to another. Example: a speed of 50 units per second in Source engine isn't the same as a speed of 50 units in for example, Unreal Engine. It's not like the graphics engines have a distance preset and the size of objects and lengths are relative from one to another, so you can't simply tell the engine "you move this object at the speed of 3 meters per second" because that's just exactly how it doesn't works.

    And consider that rebuilding the game to another engine, for example Unreal Engine, they would have to rewrite the whole physics which is obviously possible but a really extensive work as they would have to set the crouching speed, walking speed, running speed, jump height (which would require a lot of tweaks since the jump is usually extended to reach some higher areas when you are pushing to a wall), walljump speed, directional input during the walljump travel, the reverse-walljump would disappear unless they bother to manually add the glitch. And that's just for some basic movement mechanics, because then there's the skills like anchoring and flying, then there's the weapon hit motion mechanics like the knockback from shotguns, knockback from Cannonade and melee weapons like counter sword (the basic slashes), blows from sniper guns and melee weapons, and the list goes on and on.


    It's not impossible, it's just tedious, a waste of money and work time that could go into improving other areas, and in my honest opinion it would be pointless. Why would they switch it to another engine? so far there are only a few problems with the current S4 graphics engine:

    - The 60FPS cap
    - The annoying distance fog that serves absolutely no purpose but to annoy snipers

    - The graphic textures that were downgraded just because they wanted to keep the shaders and shadows that were implemented in Patch 23 yet absolutely nobody asked for that.

    - ??


    Maybe if they can fix the FPS cap everything would be alright, but in terms of graphic quality all the game needs is just some changes to particles that may cause lag (not just remove them like the Railgun effects and Dodge blur), so as long as the game keeps the screen clear and easy to spot enemies it should be fine.


    The only improvement I really want is a "Very high" graphics option that uses the old S4 textures, as I certainly don't know why were these downgraded, after all my 2012 graphics card could run the game at stable 60 FPS in the highest settings.

  • So you are telling me that is virtually impossible to just copy S4's gameplay into another engine because it takes time? Well i mean, it's gonna take even more time to fix THIS engine rather than making a new clean one.


    Textures werent downgraded, they simply removed blurr effects as far as i know and they touched the illumination of the game, they didn't do a thing that werent reversible.


    There was a blog by one of the devs related to the game when it was still a project and it was more than stated that the current engine couldn't run above 65FPS or 60, making it run above that caused a load of problems for them.

    So yeah, if running this engine above 60fps causes such issues i'm pretty sure that's more than a reason to change the engine and make a new game


    I wasn't talking just about graphics or FPS but rather the whole ball mess that the engine is made of, if the engine still the same (I think it was called XENA) than when the project started, then it went through so many changes that it got f*k up here and there

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    The post was edited 4 times, last by Shanic ().

  • What better way to spend time at 04:00 than to fix minor grammar and punctuation errors. :)


    BS aside, these are valid points. S4 is running on a very dated engine and remaking the game from scratch would solve a lot of issues, I'm sure Aeria has the funds to set a side a development team (or hire them considering how much money you milk out of your players), but what's there to gain from a game that was even abandoned (dropped) by their original Korean developers?


    Sure the ball is in the hands of Aeria now, but honestly, just like GunZ2, I don't see a future for a S4 League reboot. Odds are it'll be significantly worse than the trashpile it already is and the only good thing I could possibly see coming out of it are better servers and netcode. P2P connections aside, the framerate issues aren't really that big of a deal honestly though it is 2018 now, 10 years and we're still at 60FPS I could see some complaints and they're quite reasonable.


    For god knows why I keep coming back on these forums to check the state of the game and its community, but its always a full circle.


    Hackers -> Where are you staff -> "Lets talk about the state of the game" -> Rando comes in about a new idea to make S4 better (pointless threads and discussions that are feasible to say the least) -> "Why are we still here playing this dead game?" -> repeat.


    Not saying its not nice to see people still care for this game but honestly at this point you guys are sitting at a grave reminiscing about the good times and the ideas all have been said before not done but have for sure been mentioned. 10 years down the line, same sh!t different year.


    But back on topic, if there were a reboot I just want Vulkan support or OpenGL. DXVK is a godsend.

  • Known game engines are also easier to hack and there will be new bug and exploits that will be specific for that game engine only.

    The fps in the game is most likely capped because of how jumps works. The higher the fps is, the higher the jump is.


    A new engine woudl be better but there is no guarantee it will get new players or won't ruin the experience for the old ones.

    A new engine will also means less existing content and everyone having to get their items all over again which can be a turning point for a lot of ppl.

  • Exactly why i stated that we would need a spiritual sequel to S4 that isn't called S4. AVA is getting a sequel/reboot so we could see how that goes.

    Then we need someone to actually do it. However I doubt there are many ppl who understands the game well enough and have the capabilities and resources to create a polished game unless you get someone from the original staff to work on it.


    The other option is to wait 10 more years hoping that a game similar enough to it will shows up some day.

  • Then we need someone to actually do it. However I doubt there are many ppl who understands the game well enough and have the capabilities and resources to create a polished game unless you get someone from the original staff to work on it.


    The other option is to wait 10 more years hoping that a game similar enough to it will shows up some day.

    Man i'll be 32 when that happens if it does, it will probably give me some hard nostalgia

  • And did u try to correct your behavior between people?

    What are you a life coach? It's not my problem if people over the internet become hypersensitive over text.

    Maybe if you guys were less like chimpanzees and more like bonobos I'd speak in what you'd probably consider an acceptable manner, otherwise grow a pair.

  • I personally don't find bad for other people to correct me as long as they aren't making any mistake neither so just let it pass, it doesn't bother me face


    Let's just get back into the topic

  • In reply to part 2 video:


    "More people would make it less toxic"
    No. I do see matches with a lot of toxicity, but no where near the same amount that it once was. More people here to try hard at winning will naturally cause more toxicity.


    "We are having issues that are too broken to fix themselves"

    Code something. You'll learn very quickly that it isn't that simple. Especially when you are coding on something that is several years old without a community to help guide you. S4's engine is how old? Never mind the fact it is custom and has no community to go to with issues, the amount of time to adjust and fix a system properly that has spent several years being held together with white school glue and masking tape is gonna have a lot of issues, and those issues will take a long time to correctly fix, assuming they can be fixed at all.


    "Servers"

    They host their own servers. That said, there can be bugs with servers just the same as running the game.


    Since we are on servers, the servers they opened for the beta ran perfectly. It was only during the point after the beta did things become an issue. To me, the amount of people/accounts seem to me, to be the biggest difference. It would also explain why issues slowly get worse over time. That is something they could easily help stop from getting worse, but don't. However, that said, to back track through countless accounts to improve upon the situation, it seems stupid. At that point, they might as well initiate another migration, though given how well the last one did, I'd have to assume that would literally kill the game. It could also be people having buggy accounts or even some glitched out accounts causing issues. Who really is to say, it could simply be a problem within the code itself that degenerates over time, causing more and more issues.


    "We have a comic now"

    Coding and drawing are different. You can have zero coding experience and still be able to draw a comic. I can't believe that still needs to be said -_-


    "It is aeria's fault too"

    At this point, it is on them. I believe when you first posted your original video, the korean developers where SOLELY in charge of coding. AERIA didn't have the AUTHORITY BY CONTRACT to work on, or code the game. Their RIGHTS were EXCLUSIVELY to HOST the game. They did not have the authority to work on it -_-

    "AP stuff coming out with nothing else"

    Duh, skins do not require coding. CODING is what is needed to fix things. Should they close every aspect and lay off all the people who handle anything but coding in order to fix the issues? Is that what people want? Nothing new coming out at all and hoping that the game survives the lack of new content till everything is fixed? Cause I personally can forgive them for trying to make money while trying to fix the dumpster fire they were left with by the previous developer.


    *S4 "boss's" Kitty shirt*

    Aww :3


    "Hackers exist, it is Aeria's fault"

    Meanwhile, games that are 100% totally not pay to win, being covered by the exact same hack sheild, and make several hundreds of thousands more a month also have hackers. Is this also Aeria's fault?

    While we are on hacking, You do realize that S4DB gains info from hacking S4 right? Admittedly, aeria were massive pricks and ended up causing that outcome, but it doesn't change the fact they too are using hacks to maintain themselves. I personally would like to believe that the site owners and such don't do anything nefarious, as they have been (at least in the past) honorable people.


    "PM letter placement issues"

    The forums are the best place for it, they could advertise it on the splash page, but that is assuming that people care about it. Most people that care about the what inbehind the games either come to the forums, or go to S4DB (Which they wouldn't advertise it on anyway). What I would prefer, is ifg they posted them to the forum first instead of facebook first >.<


    "P2W"

    You can get the same stats without spending a dime.


    Final points:

    "Security"

    Can be fixed, but when it is fixed, it only lasts a finite amount of time. Providing a "permanent fix" will never happen.


    "Fixing servers and pings"

    Fixing servers is going to take a long long time. Like fixing the game. There is a lot that needs to go into it. Say you, personally, made a game on your computer, It works flawlessly for you. You upload it to a third part site like... Steam or game jolt, or some other open platform. Suddenly, you will have issues pour in because what works for you won't work for another. so it will inevitably take time to provide fixes, or you could just be like nope and leave it as is, I suppose... Not the best way to manage something though...


    Ping: At best, they might be able to improve upon a players ping slightly. Pings themselves are not constant. In dealing with an issue recently, I have went to speedtest a lot, even amongst multiple tests to the same servers, the pings vary. I am sure that aeria could figure out some metric to improve connectivity, but a -10 ping of the dude pushing 500 isn't gonna do much.


    "New player friendly"

    There is a beginner server. That said, they need to keep alt accounts out of there. Now, with enchants and the like, yes, there is going to be an uphill climb, no doubt, people who have played longs will have better stuff then someone who just started a couple weeks ago. What solution is there for that? Is there one where aeria doesn't get slammed one way or another? Cause I can't see one off hand.


    They could reintroduce level capped rooms, but there in lies the issue with alt accounts. They could remove those, but then the game has less players in it and the beginner channels are left to die.


    "It is an e-sports game"

    In the same vain as the fifa series is an e-sports game. I believe e-sports as it is known today is younger than S4.


    "Limit specific weapons"

    Was not a major issue in the glory days. Banning weapons in itself is a cancer in the game.


    "Improve the kick system to be more efficient"

    ALSO not around during the glory days. One of the biggest reasons for the toxicity you see is people wanting other people to be kicked. If they removed that, I could almost guarantee you would see much less toxicity in the game since those sorts of people would know their constant gripping wouldn't amount to anything. Heck, we had a point in time where kick was broken, flat out broken, and how peaceful it was, well, until the hackers, but even then, less complaining.


    And hey, you want it to be more newbie friendly, how about you make a kick system that more efficiently kicks them out of every single room they enter for not being good enough or even high enough level, That sounds super newbie friendly doesn't it?


    "Make stuff more accessible to new players"

    How much more accessible can they make stuff without being like "Here is free stuff for nothing at all :D", I would genuinely like to know. Cause that is where a lot of people who are asking for balance have gone to at this point. What, more pen? More pen for those that either refuse to do what is needed to get the gear themselves or simply don't know how/can't manage their pen at all? Honestly, what is your solution. You tell them you fix a lot, but offer no idea's to consider. That isn't helpful.


    "Add a new fumbi dance at half time"

    And here you are asking for cosmetics... You were complaining about cosmetics earlier, now here you are asking for more? Weird...


    "Weapon and skill in the lobby"

    If people don't mind, you could add that to the character page (assuming that isn't already a thing, dunno, I never check them)


    "The game was designed to be great"

    The game was designed to be a promotional piece for an arcade game. Feel free to look up the game DJ Max, produced by Neowiz and pentavision.

    In fact, here:

    Though the sound and length are different, you can tell that they are at least the same in a multitude of aspects.

  • Every single thing you said in this video was on point, and it basically explains the reason I come back to this game every now and then-because of the nostalgia. Other than that, the game is better off dead if no one's going to do anything to address all the existing issues it has.

  • haha omfg please teach me how to get +5TD etc w/o spending cash

    being lucky af and hundreds of hours of playing just for that 1 single enchant :^) ofc its not p2w coz they can do it in 20min while we need to do it for hundreds of hours totally not p2w btw

  • I still get crash every night when the hackers comes online, crash every single rooms in server :C (Not to mention random crash sometimes)

    So many years already, no matter how hard the devs gave in, I still can't feel anything on it -3-:(

  • Not to mention the servers crashs or the 1 hit hackers. At least we got 1 (the only one currently) security patch from aeria

    True, especially those moments that the game left few second to conclude, and the game just blink - - - away.

    Dem the feels.