"How do you have so much fun?"

  • Well, I can tell you for sure that the game will never get new players with the current room system.

    People use rules that new players don't understand and they also get kicked just for being bad.

    That's not a bad argument, but I think there are better alternatives. To begin with, there needs to be a safe space for beginners, and when I say beginners I also include some people who have somehow made it to Lv. 60. Right now, people have to leave the beginner channel completely unprepared and have to deal with a community of frustrated tryhards. Whether you want to be on the beginner channel or not should be a choice, and you shouldn't have to create several accounts for the purpose of staying in beginner. And maybe in that environment some functionalities like kick voting or room titles could be disabled.


    Then, concerning the rules, I think part of the duty of explaining those rules falls onto the interface. First off, the reason why people have to write "cpdb no F" or "noRgMK2HMGIBMG" or whatever is that there's not enough room in the title to make it more articulate. Second off, some modes (such as S5 or CPDB) have enough of a following that we're well beyond the question of whether they should be recognised and should get proper weapon restrictions like SO. That should be pretty unambiguous.


    And finally, when it comes to sitting, there are many ways that could be implemented. Like, having a button in the interface when you press escape dedicated for sitting, that keeps track of how many sits there are and shows who is sitting when you press tab, with some kind of info bubble that pops up to explain what sitting is when you hover over the button. There's probably a better way to do this, and I just said the first thing that popped to my mind.

  • The first two things on the list alone would cause a majority of the players to quit and uninstall S4, and thus bad for the game.

    Well, I can tell you for sure that the game will never get new players with the current room system.

    People use rules that new players don't understand and they also get kicked just for being bad.

    Dividing new players from the tryhards is nearly impossible since a lot of veteran players make alt accounts. If it were like in KS4 where you only get 1 account and it was connected to your Social Security number this wouldn't happen. I think Amature rank is too early for them to enter the same channel with the S4 ranks. It'd be better if you couldn't play with S4 ranks until you're at least Pro Rank.


    Or another thing. A long time ago you used to be able to set a rank limit on your room. Say you're rank 20 (Ama), you could set a rank cap of say 5 so that only players within 5 ranks of you can join your room, (GMs being the exception of course). The number could vary depending on the person. Though again like I said veterans make alt accounts, I think that system could still help out a little bit by preventing higher ranks from entering their room, and the tryhards could keep lower ranks out of theres so no more needing to kick ppl.

  • The first two things on the list alone would cause a majority of the players to quit and uninstall S4, and thus bad for the game.

    Dividing new players from the tryhards is nearly impossible since a lot of veteran players make alt accounts. If it were like in KS4 where you only get 1 account and it was connected to your Social Security number this wouldn't happen. I think Amature rank is too early for them to enter the same channel with the S4 ranks. It'd be better if you couldn't play with S4 ranks until you're at least Pro Rank.


    Or another thing. A long time ago you used to be able to set a rank limit on your room. Say you're rank 20 (Ama), you could set a rank cap of say 5 so that only players within 5 ranks of you can join your room, (GMs being the exception of course). The number could vary depending on the person. Though again like I said veterans make alt accounts, I think that system could still help out a little bit by preventing higher ranks from entering their room, and the tryhards could keep lower ranks out of theres so no more needing to kick ppl.

    The thing is, we are not exactly swimming in new players so level restriction may not be the best way to go. Not to mention they probably won't be smart enough to use it. But on a second though, it may be better than just being restricted in channel with no one to play with.

  • The first two things on the list alone would cause a majority of the players to quit and uninstall S4, and thus bad for the game.

    Dividing new players from the tryhards is nearly impossible since a lot of veteran players make alt accounts. If it were like in KS4 where you only get 1 account and it was connected to your Social Security number this wouldn't happen. I think Amature rank is too early for them to enter the same channel with the S4 ranks. It'd be better if you couldn't play with S4 ranks until you're at least Pro Rank.

    The majority of the tryhard players would be gone, and that would be only good for S4 League in the distant future. Doesn't seem bad at all to me :D

    But they are probably too chicken to make anything of the listet ones happen because thousends of little childs would be upset about it. Right NerdyArgon ? :D


    Logged in today. Took 1min and I was offline again (wasn't online for ~1 month). The playerbase is decreasing and Aeria + Gamigo doesn't seem to care that new players should join the game. I actually think they don't know how they should actually do that. Removing these things or parts of it makes the game a lot more beginner friendly.

    Kara said himself that he thought about removing Station-2 for a month in the last Q&A. I would like to see that happen.

  • Removing St2 would cause an uproar with some players. I don't think it would take away from most the playerbase overall. Gonna have a lot of rage toolers though.

    Yes. An uproar with the worst players. Srsly they play only 1 map all the time and they are still bad in it. Not because they can't jump or aim. Because they are playing brainless. Doing the same thing 30times and every time he/she failed. Well the 31 could work... Ignoring every help and team play. Really when I play with senty nell and place it every time at the same spot they are still running into it. They don't even remember things even if I place it over and over again at the same spot. It's so boring to play against these even with pen stuff.

  • I may be part of the problem since i play a ton of st2 but since i loathe SO i don't really have much of a choice, i do join dm rooms when they are unlimited but those are pretty scarce. i really enjoy st2 so ill play st2, but i also really like old school and do enjoy most dm and br maps except the maps that are made to just get sniped like one of the azit ones.


    People just play what they want, its when the community is small that it becomes apparent since most just settle for whatever is available.


    I think forcing the current player base to play something else isn't the solution. its not because of st2 that make people become toxic and start to kick newbies, its not because of SO either. two separate problems and i've seen people get kicked off any game mode. It's just that currently since most of the population is playing st2 and so rooms, then most of the toxic people are in these modes too.


    I saw the youtube vid a of the livestream a few days ago, what kara said sounded like a joke to me iirc.


    B3mo by the way you write i feel you are pretty toxic. Its obvious you care for the game but calling those still playing "tryhards" and area/gamingo "chickens" isn't doing anything, its just you being mean. I am having fun with these "tryhards" (implying trying to win in an online game is an insult) and while some are toxic, some of those toxic people are also the same very dedicated people that love the game. Maybe you are just angry with the game/devs and this is your way of expressing this frustration but yea in the end its your opinion so its not wrong, as this is mine.


    Foxtailgirl A game is to have fun, if you don't then don't play, i want to believe we are here discussing these things because we like this game and hope for its best.



    I'll just be patient and wait for some change, then when i've have had enough i'll leave, as we will all.

  • I also played a lot of Station 2. Not like I actually had much of a choice.


    Yeah until they quit that is. The community is forcing this game in such a 1 sided direction that the older players are starting to quit and new players are not coming. The thing is in the end S4 League is going down. Nothing is forever.


    No. It is not because of the current situation. I was playing SO a lot back in the days and most people were toxic there. When I switched to unlimited/normal gameplay the players were much friendlier and less toxic. Could be because I was lucky but I don't believe that. Well the S5 community was also really toxic.


    Well even if it was meant more in a joke way he gave it a thought at least. He wouldn't have said it if he did not.


    Could be. Didn't want to sound toxic here in this thread but it was kinda late and I need my sleep xD Would have been better to write it today. But let me explain this how I see it:

    "Chicken" does sound for me kinda cute. I didn't mean that in an insulting way and also didn't know that it is insulting nowadays tho.

    "Tryhards" are for me not people that want to win the game. I think everyone that plays the game also wants to win. If I gave it my best and still end up loosing well I'm not mad at all. Tryhards want to win the game in any possible way. That is starting with banning certain weapons + clanstacking and goes on with blaming people/weapons/stats, insulting people and vote kicking the new players just to win the game. They don't see any fault by themselves. This is a tryhard for me.

    Nah I'm not angry at the game/devs.


    If fun means kicking new players all the time because you are not satisfied enough with them, well. I don't see any reason why you should have more authority than new players. I don't think it makes much fun to get kicked out of the game while you tried your best.

  • I'm all for map and mode diversity, but really there aren't many viable alternatives to Sta-2 TD.


    When it comes to maps, many of them are too rushy, many of them are too tedious, and then some manage to be both (a combination of the goal being hard to defend and players having to spend most of their time running because the map is too large).


    As for modes, some of them seem to choose the winner randomly (BR and Chaser) and some have huge balance issues caused mostly but not exclusively by healing (Captain, Siege, DM). And then there's Warfare, Passmode and Arena.

  • I'm all for map and mode diversity, but really there aren't many viable alternatives to Sta-2 TD.


    When it comes to maps, many of them are too rushy, many of them are too tedious, and then some manage to be both (a combination of the goal being hard to defend and players having to spend most of their time running because the map is too large).


    As for modes, some of them seem to choose the winner randomly (BR and Chaser) and some have huge balance issues caused mostly but not exclusively by healing (Captain, Siege, DM). And then there's Warfare, Passmode and Arena.

    BR random ? Hello bro wake up.


    DM just bann heal/ms/ws and you get the bests games you can get IG

  • BR random ? Hello bro wake up.


    DM just bann heal/ms/ws and you get the bests games you can get IG

    Well, he is not completely wrong. BR can get very luck dependent for the top 3 players.

    With that said, Most modes are actually fine for the most part. People just don't want to invest some time to learn to play them.


    The only bad designed modes are probably Arena (with all the unreasonable waiting for a turn) and passmode since you can jump over the gate with scythe

  • Well, he is not completely wrong. BR can get very luck dependent for the top 3 players.

    With that said, Most modes are actually fine for the most part. People just don't want to invest some time to learn to play them.


    The only bad designed modes are probably Arena (with all the unreasonable waiting for a turn) and passmode since you can jump over the gate with scythe

    If you are only able to make one kill in BR before you die, obv it will be to the one who get the first place killed the most. But it's a BR bro, even tho the targetted player is in a bad place, he can get kills and still be the first, it'll never be the same guy killing him.

  • If you are only able to make one kill in BR before you die, obv it will be to the one who get the first place killed the most. But it's a BR bro, even tho the targetted player is in a bad place, he can get kills and still be the first, it'll never be the same guy killing him.

    There is still a lot of kill stealing and rng how close you will respawn to the target. The point system could use a bit of tweaking if anything.

  • If you are only able to make one kill in BR before you die, obv it will be to the one who get the first place killed the most. But it's a BR bro, even tho the targetted player is in a bad place, he can get kills and still be the first, it'll never be the same guy killing him.

    You'll find it hard to get multiple kills on each of your lives when you're being hounded from every direction and people know where you are precisely. Unless you're playing against dramatically worse players. Most of the time, everything is decided on the last few kills and it often ends up with a kill on the first scorer.


    Be it random or not, I do not consider kill stealing as being much of a skill, nor do I consider manipulating your points so that you can get that last second sweep on somebody rather than getting sweeped yourself to be an example of interesting decision making. And when everything is at stake on the last couple of kills, like Hella said respawning on the other end of the map can be quite devastating.


    If BR was fair, you'd almost never see those kinds of last second sweeps (and people exchanging first place in general would be much less frequent). Well, you'd see them about as often as you see them in other modes, to give you a comparison. 1 person would be first place for the whole game and win because they're the best, and if that doesn't sound very exciting to you then you probably can see why the devs did what they did. I'd much rather have it be fair though.

  • I'm not well liked in chaser, being I use HMG Cannonade and a Breaker. Unless you're nimble as heck you're gonna die. I preferred the days when walls couldn't be used in Chaser. People hide behind them thinking it will stop me but i'm so OP I just tear through the wall like tissue paper so they don't survive for long.

    I like BRs here and there. Sometimes leads to some fun rounds and I hardly go all out with my mainset. I prefer doing BR with my Bloop set; Bomb, MK2Gauss, and TB.

    The Idea for me is not to always win but to have a smile when the match is over. Sometimes I play in TDs using my bloop set for funzies because I don't want to work hard x3.

  • I kinda despise the Devs as the game got eventualy worse over the years despite having some good content released from time to time.

    Because lets face it, the games history had alot of terrible updates.

    The balance of weapons taking years to arrive, the hacker infestation on blade season were 1 third of the players were cheating (ence why i call blade season hackers rain), the times that the game unplayable for months like alice wonderlag or the chrismas crash.

    The lack of map implemetation for modes. (How many years did it took for them to finaly put some dm maps as BR? that even with that, they couldnt do proper spaws)

    The clan system becoming worse and worse every time the devs touch them, I once loved making clans, fighting other clans and doing clan rooms where we wouldnt stack, we simply would have 3 or 4 members on each team, there were times where i had to expand the rooms to 16 players to hold everyone in, but even with that, I still had a staff to create a second room, geez, those sure were the golden times for me on s4.

    Also the newer modes that were massive bugged...


    The part were there was no dumb rules and the farm rooms werent such a plague everytime there was an event.

    Even I loved SO, my friends would always say why I loved doing SO BR so much with my black PS with gold dragon.


    And those saying theres no other reliable map other than station-2... I guess you are new on this game...

    What about old school? station1 and 3? templeM? colosseum? highway? All these maps are realy fun!

    And what about wonderland and ice square? Those can be fun too, heck, ice square to me, is the fun st2 map.

    Have you ever played side-3? that can be fun from time to time too, yes I agree that it can be the hardest map on TD, but it doesnt make it less fun.


    And in the right hands, BR can be realy competitive, its true that the top player can get killed at the last second by the second top player.

    But the thing is, there is always a way to win! many people who get on top1 always forget that they can die on purpose aggainst a low point enemy instead of being killed by the top 2 or 3!..... Well, thats my strategy on BR when im on top1, get kills and try to get killed by those with less points when im on low hp or if the enemy is too strong for me.


    And I disagree on momma this time, I love when peopl bring walls to chaser, thats the time where my katana shines!



    As Zeke said "Maybe you are just angry with the game/devs and this is your way of expressing this frustration"


    I agree, my anger is limitless, but the same applies to my patience, this is why I still post on these forums.

  • S4's not a good example of how developing a game, hopefully aeria will be able to change that. Don't mind the time they'll take on doing that if we end up seeing a better dev team than the previous one we had. We all know that KR devs only see their games as gacha machines and nothing else

  • And those saying theres no other reliable map other than station-2... I guess you are new on this game...

    What about old school? station1 and 3? templeM? colosseum? highway? All these maps are realy fun!

    And what about wonderland and ice square? Those can be fun too, heck, ice square to me, is the fun st2 map.


    Have you ever played side-3? that can be fun from time to time too, yes I agree that it can be the hardest map on TD, but it doesnt make it less fun.

    I'm the one who said that those maps were badly designed so I'm going to assume that you're addressing me, at least in part. I've been playing for a pretty long time (the dark lightning season), and I know how to play the maps. I played them with my old clan for tournament practice, and I got pretty good at them. By which I mean, I get first score most of the time. Except in Colosseum. I don't hate them all, some of them I find fun personally as a change of pace once in a while, but I stand by my statement, they all fail at what a map needs to do. In unlimited, at least. I have no idea how those maps play in SO.


    Some of them are way too repetitive because realistically there's only one viable path, some of them are too rushy and some of them are just tedious.


    Maps where rushing is too strong of a strategy (sta-1, old school, temple, side-3 and others that I don't want to have to justify including in there) don't offer a good basis for a diverse meta and they're a nightmare for beginners or players with an intermediate level who don't know the map.


    Maps with only one viable path (sta-1, sta-3) lead to the same thing happening over and over again. In unli, I'd say Ice square is the worst map in that regard since trying to cross the spikes while being shot at or trying to use the destructible rocks as platforms results in failure with an overwhelming frequency.


    And then there are maps where there's a lot of uneventful running around because they're too big and/or too flat. Highway and Colosseum are prime examples of that.

  • There is still a lot of kill stealing and rng how close you will respawn to the target. The point system could use a bit of tweaking if anything.

    If you are not able to be killed by the right person at the moment it's needed, and get your kills stole, it's none of my buisness lmfao

  • If you are not able to be killed by the right person at the moment it's needed, and get your kills stole, it's none of my buisness lmfao

    Is that what should decide who wins? Letting yourself get killed by the one amateur who wandered into the room and stealing kills? Do you genuinely not see how there might be an issue with BR?

  • Is that what should decide who wins? Letting yourself get killed by the one amateur who wandered into the room and stealing kills? Do you genuinely not see how there might be an issue with BR?

    Yeah it's called a way of winning, if you don't like it then you got the choice to not play but i personnally have no problem with BR and i do like this mode like it is right now, i'm winning most of them and unlike you i'm not using the factor 'luck' or 'random' on it.

  • So just because the maps are hard means they are badly designed?

    "Maps where rushing is too strong of a strategy" Do pls tell me how this does not apply to station-2


    So to you, icesquare is worst because its more hard to score?


    Viable paths? Dont most maps have 2 viable paths like station 2? (Without the use of flying and anchor)


    Pff, and station-2 is not repetitive at all. :Fumbi1:

    I do agree that highway could use a few tweaks.



    And regarding BR, I dont see how trying to deny your biggest threat of points or kill stealing is an issue, last time I checked, this mode is a free4all.

    But then again, even on other trashy team games, kids tend to complain about kill steals. (Especialy mobas, what a cancer this matter is to them)

  • I once was told I don't make any effort to kills since I perch somewhere high and shoot people from below. Also I tend to try to assist teammates with a few shots x3. I am a support-type player as I always have been.

  • So just because the maps are hard means they are badly designed?

    No. Maps that are all about rushing are badly designed because they are restrictive when it comes to playstyle. The maps being hard just adds to the fact that many people don't feel like playing them. You're not going to find many rush mains who don't like those maps, but they need the other players as well to start a game. I'm a fragger, and I feel like in those maps I am not allowed to make any mistake. I don't mind personally since it's intense and I can make it work, but I can't say the same for everybody.

    "Maps where rushing is too strong of a strategy" Do pls tell me how this does not apply to station-2

    Rushing is viable in sta-2, but not dominant (unless boots are involved or the other team has really bad players). But I guess again it's the difference between SO and unli. In unli I can gun down rushers without much issue most of the time as long as I respawn in time, and the fact that guns are available to defenders is a big deal in that rushers have a sort of time limit before which they just die.

    So to you, icesquare is worst because its more hard to score?

    No not at all in fact from my personal experience games are faster in ice square than in sta-2. But what's harder, in unli at least, is to go for the front ramp or the flying rocks. It's way too easy to stop the former with a revolver or shotgun and the flying rocks just end up being destroyed. So from my personal experience every time people score it's after going for the side ramp (or anch in some cases).

    Viable paths? Dont most maps have 2 viable paths like station 2? (Without the use of flying and anchor)

    Sta-1 is pretty linear, and sta-3 after the fight at the mid when the round starts if both teams play optimally they use the jump pad every time to get to the enemy base, there's no need to reset. In other word it's just always the same path, and that path is as flat as can be.


    Sta-2 has a lot more going on, and pretty much any playstyle that is viable outside of sta-2 is also viable in sta-2.

  • there might be better reasons like what nitho is saying but from a casual view point st2 is also a ton of fun simply because there are a lot of exciting jumps you can do to move around the map so fast, no other map honestly feels the same, st1 has literally one wall jump. ice square is meh, st3 the jumps are not part of the main route (go from base jump pad other base). tunnel is a straight line. i like wonderland and old school but i feel they dont have the same freedom to feel as good in the wall jumps. there is a map (which name i forgot) that probably has a ton of freedom in where to jump but its very dark and i find the map so confusing (its also bigger i think). Its the one with the two bridges right outside spawn and a ton of vehicles with two floors and a ton of stairs.


    also the jumps are not that hard to do, which seperates it from the castle map which im like nope get me out of there. Foxtailgirl

  • I don't have a problem with any maps.. I do, however perform better on certain ones. But I am not an elitist or anything I just want to enjoy a game. St2 is far too easy to defend (when my ping is normal). Unless my offense is weak I can repel quite a few attempts alone before someone eventually gets through. I like Ice Square and I used to like Colo, but I am very out of practice in that area x3. I prefer maps that give me flying room honestly. So long as I got that I feel comfy <3

  • All true points, but its still fun to play on those maps and nothing is better than a change of scenery.

    I might agree that station-2 might be the map for newer players to learn how to play, but I am not talking about only new players and even if I did, shouldnt newbies eventualy try other maps and slowly learn about them?



    I havent played in a while before i logged in just now, I played 3 rounds, they were fun, the funny thing is that the title of the room was jumproom, but when I got in, I casualy killed people, none complained and the rounds stopped being jump rooms, it was fun and very casual. (And it was also a meele room too)


    I now can only play at 4am-7am because thats when I get home, but theres barely any rooms... its all jump or cpd, before I cried about not having unlimited rooms, now I cant even find normal meele rooms.... Geez, this game is "hard to play"...

  • I see why some people put limits:

    I found an unlimited room the other day for DM, it was run by a new player and he was being bullied by two pros with Mindshock and Mind energy. They just healed each other and mind shocked him. Two pro ranked player mercilessly obliterating the poor guy >:

    I stepped in and helped the guy win with sheer brute force as my HMG can take down someone with 1 or 2 healers on them. After 3 minutes and gaining the lead from them, they both RQ. Shouldn't have to do that for people and shouldn't really do that to people that are new. No respect imo >:


    Then I jumped in a TD the other day with a restriction of Noexplo,bind and one other thing I don't use. I been to plenty of those rooms using my mainset and had no complaints. Their restrictions were to let their IBs win without anything to stop them. So, I cannon pushed them all in holes and we won. The RM was mad saying that Cannonade is a part of the explo restriction afterwards. I can sort of understand the rail gun restriction here and there, and the no heal/ms (though with that restriction I prefer it because me with a few healers can be OP <3) but some restrictions are there only to ensure they can win without effort. How are people even considering themselves good at the game when a simple Cannonadier can just wipe you out with rookie-level skills >:

  • the funny thing is that the title of the room was jumproom, but when I got in, I casualy killed people

    I don't know how things work in SO, but if you disrespect the title in a room I am part of, I'll do everything I can to have you kicked. I'm kind of sick of that new trend of people who don't care about the room title and are just looking for an easy win. If you don't agree with the title, then go somewhere else or make your own room. And if you don't like having to wait for players to come, watch a video on the side or something. Everybody has to wait when they make a room, unless their timing is good, and it's not for you to come and ruin their fun. Jump rooms might seem boring to you, but they're necessary for people who want to improve their jumps (unless in SO they're only a place for farmers to hang out).


    It's already rare enough to see people genuinely try to improve these days, don't go trying to make it more difficult for them. Please.

  • Okay, fine by me.

    And dont use that "they are necessary for people to learn jumps", people who wanted to learn jumps would make a private room with a friend or 2 to train up.


    And only nowadays that people care about room titles, years ago people didnt even read titles or knew of their existence, everyone played as they wanted, and not sure how saying that I cannot use X weapon or making me not playing is a fun thing.

    So I cannot ruin their fun, but they can ruin mine because a title that none cared about years ago?

  • Okay, fine by me.

    And dont use that "they are necessary for people to learn jumps", people who wanted to learn jumps would make a private room with a friend or 2 to train up.


    And only nowadays that people care about room titles, years ago people didnt even read titles or knew of their existence, everyone played as they wanted, and not sure how saying that I cannot use X weapon or making me not playing is a fun thing.

    So I cannot ruin their fun, but they can ruin mine because a title that none cared about years ago?

    No one cared about titles before because there was no vote kick to abuse Alice1

  • No one cared about titles before because there was no vote kick to abuse Alice1

    Tho in the case of not respecting what the host of the room wants i don't think its "abuse" of the vote kick system.


    I think if you want a jump room you should be able to make one, the fact is this game doesn't have those options so tittle rooms is all we got. this game is not popular enough to say "just go in with one friend and make a locked room" i don't know anyone really (to make a locked room). i go into jump rooms quite a bit just because i like jumping.


    HolyEmperorOfMankind No one is telling you to go join the room. If you don't want to join a room to jump, don't join jump rooms. I would kick anyone that started killing or scoring in a jump room with no hesitation. Same as S5 rooms or cpdf rooms ( tho i personally hate those).

  • Tho in the case of not respecting what the host of the room wants i don't think its "abuse" of the vote kick system.


    I think if you want a jump room you should be able to make one, the fact is this game doesn't have those options so tittle rooms is all we got. this game is not popular enough to say "just go in with one friend and make a locked room" i don't know anyone really (to make a locked room). i go into jump rooms quite a bit just because i like jumping.

    The purpose of the vote kick was to get rid of hackers not people who are playing normally.


    But anyway, the jump rooms have been around for ages and doesn't seems to be going away anytime soon.

  • Well jump rooms are a nice things, it allows you to improve yourself without being bothered, so i don't think there is any problem with that.

    And for the jump room in mode like DM it's BS but they're not bothering anyone, most of the time they're only speaking together, so unless they're annyoing people that are really playing i don't have problem with them, they stay in their rooms and that's all fine.