Questions & Answers Session - 1

  • But suicide means they're willing to sacrifice their personal score, and if it's TD (7 seconds) of valuable time since there's no instant re spawn in that mode. Suicide was not meant to be something one can intentionally do, and I do wish some further punishment could be done to the player for doing it intentionally. Sadly though there's no way for the game to know if it was intentional or not. For other modes, they could do something like make it so players can't use coin buffs if they Suicide. (No instant spawning for full ammo, or even now no suicide for quick bomb reloads).

    Id hate to break it for you but try hards and play-for-wins users dont bother with personal scores..

    Why you all bother with unlimited ammo now whene unlimited is dead anyway ? unlimited or limited nothing will change in the rooms game play wise.

  • So , I have got a question , It's probably Like inappropriate for a huge rack of players. ?
    But I'm gonna state the reasons to imply the question.
    Aren't you guys considering Nerfing the [ Counter sword ] ? I mean it's getting handful and almost flawless The features It got are beyond ridiculous.
    In addition to that , People refine it with tools
    I mean If you gotta compare a specific weapon to the CS , CS would still have more features In terms of Combat , Defensiveness and agility and definitely It's up to the player I'm aware of that.
    If you can just shake off one of these It would be a little bit more balanced to other weapons.
    Like , The swift displacement it causes when You just swing the sword to some direction ( People use tools to make that displacement even wider ).
    The Jump attack , Which CS users have maintained the feature to Easily recover when Tossed out of the map.
    Protection Feature , Which leaves The attacker stunned for Long especially when you have no SP left ( People use tools to ward off when Dashed at with a plasma sword or a dagger stab OR Prolonging stuntime )
    Not to mention the other Features like the Comet for instance.

    P.S : I'm absolutely friendly. Consider that just a suggestion and I know there are more Overpowered weapons out there Like The BR BUT they are just OP in terms of combat only , Not the three aspects I mentioned above.

  • Limited ammo though would nerf the RG bigtime. They'd have to actually aim properly instead of that berserk rampage rapid rail style of playing. They'd burn through their limited clip really fast doing that. I never had a problem with the idea of limited ammo.


    Honestly i dunno why ppl do have a problem with limited ammo. Is it because they don't wanna take melee in Unlimited or smth? Is it because they don't want careless shots to be unpunished?


    Edit: Also that weapon drop would be a nice little feature. It'd give newer players a chance to use whale enchanted weapons against their original owners. Also in a way it'd kinda stop the whole "I use pen stats" bs ppl throw around as an excuse. We could say "you chose not to pick up their weapons". XD

    Problem with limited ammo on snipers weapons is that you'll mostly stay in defence so as Hella said the only way to reset your ammo is to suicide. Limited ammo is a good thing when it's about weaps like bomb where you'll anyway rush to make the bomb worth and you'll die. It's like a weapon which allow to create big opportunities when snipers don't.

    This is why i got a problem with the SS, once you used all your ammo you forced to rush or suicide yourself when rusher or cover roles will mostly die anyway while trying to td.


    Neh limited ammo isn't a 'good' thing, it may work in TD where you'll die pretty fast thanks to the objective, but in some modes like DM or BR you can stay way longer alive so having limited ammo would be a problem for people. Furthermore when you know you loose points in DM when suiciding yourself.

    Well exploits are a part of the game and allow it to be more 'smooth' in gameplay term, and most of exploits aren't that easy to learn so it's like rewarding people who tryhard them. "To have more than one string in your bow" is a good way to describe them

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Yaethus ().

  • most of the swords only community wont even consider it since they use it way too much and never want a nerf on it. have wall push + stun + high move speed + defensive barrier with close to no downside other than being a little bit slower i dont know why they havent nerfed it yet.

  • most of the swords only community wont even consider it since they use it way too much and never want a nerf on it. have wall push + stun + high move speed + defensive barrier with close to no downside other than being a little bit slower i dont know why they havent nerfed it yet.

    CS already got nerfed hardly in damage terms years ago because it was both OP in unli + sword. Right now the weapon is fine in unlimited so why should they nerf it again ? It would make it useless unless you are using it to flydodging, Right now it stills a good defensive weapon which allows you to make interesting things without being OP. As i said, in unlimited.

  • CS already got nerfed hardly in damage terms years ago because it was both OP in unli + sword. Right now the weapon is fine in unlimited so why should they nerf it again ? It would make it useless unless you are using it to flydodging, Right now it stills a good defensive weapon which allows you to make interesting things without being OP. As i said, in unlimited.

    im speaking of nerf in its "revenge" its literally full stun defense not "counter" change it so that it works in a different manner without the stun i dont see why it has a stun to begin with.

  • CS already got nerfed hardly in damage terms years ago because it was both OP in unli + sword. Right now the weapon is fine in unlimited so why should they nerf it again ? It would make it useless unless you are using it to flydodging, Right now it stills a good defensive weapon which allows you to make interesting things without being OP. As i said, in unlimited.

    They nerfed it yea But that was only for combat dep. And It's not even considered a huge execution like they didn't really drop the damage crucially It's still there about 4 Uppercuts just finish you off and The CS is really quick That's the agility I'm talking about Which is nowhere around any other wep.
    And yea don't forget Pushing the revenge against the wall gives you a really weird acceleration.

    At least nerfing that speed or leaving the CS without the Stun feature would be fine. Cus from my perspective , A skilled CS user becomes really handful to beat Using the speed and revenge , You gotta just Prowl about him until you're blue in the face and You may or may not succeed to kill in the end. :smile:

    Hella_Hell , Idk if they are exploits or Features actually , I don't think It coincidentally exists. They are still sometimes nerve racking nevertheless.

  • At least nerfing that speed or leaving the CS without the Stun feature would be fine. Cus from my perspective , A skilled CS user becomes really handful to beat Using the speed and revenge , You gotta just Prowl about him until you're blue in the face and You may or may not succeed to kill in the end. :smile

    I have no problem with that. I have guns and I dare to use em

  • Problem with limited ammo on snipers weapons is that you'll mostly stay in defence so as Hella said the only way to reset your ammo is to suicide. Limited ammo is a good thing when it's about weaps like bomb where you'll anyway rush to make the bomb worth and you'll die. It's like a weapon which allow to create big opportunities when snipers don't.

    This is why i got a problem with the SS, once you used all your ammo you forced to rush or suicide yourself when rusher or cover roles will mostly die anyway while trying to td.


    Neh limited ammo isn't a 'good' thing, it may work in TD where you'll die pretty fast thanks to the objective, but in some modes like DM or BR you can stay way longer alive so having limited ammo would be a problem for people. Furthermore when you know you loose points in DM when suiciding yourself.

    Well exploits are a part of the game and allow it to be more 'smooth' in gameplay term, and most of exploits aren't that easy to learn so it's like rewarding people who tryhard them. "To have more than one string in your bow" is a good way to describe them

    Problem though with Unlimited Reloads on Snipers is that you can just camp the whole game on at ur spawn in most maps unpunished (except by other snipers). Try playing on maps like Azit against players that only takes Rail/Shield. You'll find without these same type of weapons & shield you can't even touch them. What's worse is they can easily suicide from their beloved camp perches to reset their Hp/Ammo if needed. Limiting ammo would punish players for spray & pray. Even on other maps if someone decides to "take out the sniper" as their role, the sniper can just put a tracker on them and kill them before they can even get close; and then proceed back to camping.


    I do believe suicide should have even more punishment added to it. Like have suicidal deaths make players have to wait longer before re spawning, like 10 second instead of 7, but also have it so you can't use coin buffs to escape.


    Also with the release of chips a while back reloading times have become a joke, and so that's hardly a problem with guns anymore. Only specific guns have slow reloads even with the chips, but you won't be reloading them until you're safe to do so anyway.

  • Problem though with Unlimited Reloads on Snipers is that you can just camp the whole game on at ur spawn in most maps unpunished (except by other snipers). Try playing on maps like Azit against players that only takes Rail/Shield. You'll find without these same type of weapons & shield you can't even touch them. What's worse is they can easily suicide from their beloved camp perches to reset their Hp/Ammo if needed. Limiting ammo would punish players for spray & pray. Even on other maps if someone decides to "take out the sniper" as their role, the sniper can just put a tracker on them and kill them before they can even get close; and then proceed back to camping.


    I do believe suicide should have even more punishment added to it. Like have suicidal deaths make players have to wait longer before re spawning, like 10 second instead of 7, but also have it so you can't use coin buffs to escape.


    Also with the release of chips a while back reloading times have become a joke, and so that's hardly a problem with guns anymore. Only specific guns have slow reloads even with the chips, but you won't be reloading them until you're safe to do so anyway.

    Currently Azit is the only map where snipers aren't punished, if i remember well you can catch them in every other single map of the game, so your point makes no sense.

    Then for the point of suiciding themself, well as i told you making limited ammo on theses weaps will accentuate the fact they will suicide, so it will make the game even worse.

    About the tracker thing, well it works in both way, once the sniper kills you you can also track him, so i don't really know what you wanted to point here.

    To finish: with esper, it's not a 'sniper problem', esper makes all weapons works differently with it, it allows to not take swords since reload is way faster with it.

  • Currently Azit is the only map where snipers aren't punished, if i remember well you can catch them in every other single map of the game, so your point makes no sense.

    Then for the point of suiciding themself, well as i told you making limited ammo on theses weaps will accentuate the fact they will suicide, so it will make the game even worse.

    About the tracker thing, well it works in both way, once the sniper kills you you can also track him, so i don't really know what you wanted to point here.

    To finish: with esper, it's not a 'sniper problem', esper makes all weapons works differently with it, it allows to not take swords since reload is way faster with it.

    I should of been more specific. I'm mostly referring to Rail gun when regarding to "Snipe guns" my bad. Anyway I've done a match on Spade without dying even once by Rail camping. Been on the receiving end of it on Azit/Ex (and will never play in either place again on unlimited for those reasons). Rail gunners have always camped at St-2, and rail snipers prevent chasers from doing anything other than being target practice. I could make a long list of all the maps where Snipe type guns dominate the game, but since everyone plays st-2 there's no point. Though I could narrow it down to "All maps that have wide open areas to run, or maps that're mostly long narrow hallways/corridors".


    SS is fine "because it has limited ammo". I've seen some good SS players, and they seemed to have no problem with the limited ammo. SS is the only one that truly feels like a Sniper Rifle, and it does its job well enough.


    I've always felt that the Cannonade was in its perfect place. Good Sabotage, good shield pierce. AOE dmg etc. If Cannon got its ammo limited I believe it should be given more ammo than the Rail.


    Also players in unlimited tend to die much quicker than in OS, and so there's no real worry about running out unless you "spray and pray" all the time. Add coin drops & weapon swap drops into the mix and there's even less room to worry.


    Trackers (and coin buffs in general) shouldn't exist. Track buff makes invisible & Detect completely useless in game. Kick ppl that suicide intentionally, easy fix. It's not intended to be good thing in game. Even the in game rules section on the site says suicide in Chaser isn't allowed, and so I don't see why it'd be "okay" anywhere else. Also greater suicide penalties like I mentioned above would also help. Who'd choose to suicide intentionally knowing the penalty is higher? A few extra seconds can make or break a game, and not just in TD, but also in DM.

  • Limited ammo is a shoddy way to balance a weapon in most cases. A broken weapon is still a broken weapon even if you cant use it indefinitely.


    The proper way to nerf the weapon is to return it to how it once was. No need to butcher it any further. It was one of the most balanced weapon in the game and I consider it the perfect wheel, the current version is a square and you're suggesting limited ammo to "balance" it out, in other words, we're gonna now move to a hexagon. lol Lets just go back to the perfect wheel that was the original Rail please and stop butchering it with changes that might not work, cripple the weapon or doesn't affect it at all.


    Also limited ammo would mean we have to think up a system that will not detract from the speed of the game. If you get it from kills then congrats Its just a mediocre step down from unlimited ammo because most people are competent with killing and guns that don't focus heavily on killing like cannonade will be punished. If we go the route of ammo drops on the map then someone will have to sit down and create fair drop points all over the maps that exist in s4. Limited ammo is simply fixing something that isn't broken and is a short sighted way to nerf most op weapons.

    As for the counter sword, it is fine as it is. If we're going to balance the game towards sword only then might as well get rid of unlimited mode. A sword's inherent weakness is that guns are better anywhere except up close. No one runs up to a cs and melees them.

    Before we touch things like cs we should fix breaker's light slash, that thing is faster than a PS slash and can hit twice if interrupted.


    Also the game has really become stale and stagnant as if it is in a state of limbo. the servers and lifting the IP ban should be top priority in order to improve the lively hood of the game.

  • Uh I wasn't suggesting limited ammo because of Rail. and In fact I didn't suggest it. I said I didn't have a problem in general with all ammo reloads being limited. It'd actually make Unlimited more interesting for someone like me, (and maybe many others) who mostly plays with Melee. (even in Unlimited DM I like using 3 melee weapons and even then it's still more fun for me).


    Anyways I apologize for derailing the topic. This isn't the topic to argue about these kinda things.